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Lee Krevat, CEO of Krevat Energy Innovations, has over three decades of experience working in energy and technology. Notably he served as Director and Founder of the Smart Grid organization at San Diego Gas & Electric, evangelizing grid modernization especially to support charging of electric vehicles.  He serves on numerous boards and has a great purview of where we are in the energy transition away from fossil fuels. Lee is also the host of the popular Climate Champions Podcast.

Learn more about Krevat Energy Innovations here: https://krevatenergyinnovations.com/

Check out the Climate Champions Podcast here: https://climatechampions.podbean.com/

Find Lee on LinkedIn here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/krevat/

#Leadership #Energy  #climatechange #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ

[Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Lee Krevat, who is a leader in the energy sector, where he’s evangelized the transformation of the electrical energy grid in order to accommodate the transition to electric vehicles. And now, for the conversation.

Matt Schlegel:

Lee Krevat joins me today for a conversation about leadership and climate. Lee has over three decades experience working in energy and technology. Notably, he served as director and founder of the Smart Grid organization at San Diego Gas & Electric, evangelizing grid modernization, especially to support charging of electric vehicles. He serves on a number of boards and has a great purview of where we are in the energy transition away from fossil fuels. Lee is also the host of the Climate Champions podcast. And I’m very grateful he had me on there for a conversation. And I’m equally grateful to have him here today.

Matt Schlegel:

Welcome, Lee.

Lee Krevat:

It’s great to be here. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Great. Well, it’s great to have you. I really enjoyed our conversation. I encourage everybody to check out your Climate Champions podcast, it’s really great. It’s a great podcast. I really appreciate the opportunity to share thoughts about the climate there.

Matt Schlegel:

And this came up in our conversation too, about how we’re feeling. So I was hoping that you could start off and share, with this audience, how you’re feeling now about the climate crisis?

Lee Krevat:

Well, it’s interesting you should ask how I’m feeling now, because certainly I’ve had a long, many year journey, many decade journey with regards to climate change and how I have felt. Right now, to be honest, I feel a mixture almost all the time. And it’s really based on what’s going on in the news lately or based on my latest podcast and who I interviewed and what they had to say.

Lee Krevat:

Sometimes I have people that are very abreast of the facts and they can speak about it very clearly, from a scientific perspective, on the modeling and what is going on with the weather impacts and other impacts. When they go into those details I do get very nervous. I do get scared again. Even though I’ve been through it so many times before, every time I think about the task ahead of the human race it does make me scared again. I don’t really get mad, because I think we’re all to blame. So there’s nobody to get mad at, really. It’s the way it is. And we have to do something about it.

Lee Krevat:

Other times I’m very optimistic, and very excited, very happy, because, first of all, I’ve interviewed now 120 people for the climatechampions.com podcast … I got a little plug in there-

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah, I know.

Lee Krevat:

… and it’s just the fact that there’s-

Matt Schlegel:

It’s a really great show. And yeah, please plug away.

Lee Krevat:

… just the fact that there are so many people that want to be on the show and that are out there to be on the show. I also did a call this morning, GreenTech Talks, a buddy of mine, Les Mood, on LinkedIn, hosts that. We had over 100 people on that. And just so many people that want to do something. Then as I interview people, there are so many things that they’re doing that will really help and gives us a chance.

Lee Krevat:

So every time I’m opened up to a new, fantastic technology … or sometimes it’s not a technology, just a process, a methodology, like you have … it gives me renewed hope. So I go in between a feeling of dread about what’s going to happen and a feeling that we can do something about it.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Well, I mean, that’s great. I think a lot of people in the climate space are having similar different feelings that they’re rolling through. And it’s really interesting how you bring up hope and, I guess, anxiety or some kind of fear that you’re feeling. And you’re going back and forth between those two.

Matt Schlegel:

Sometimes I’ve heard people say that they’re feeling sadness or grief, and sometimes I hear that people are frustrated or angry. So it’s really interesting how each of us does have a core that can, one, serve to wake us up, but also serve to energize us and move to action and give us hope. So, I mean, that’s fantastic.

Matt Schlegel:

So how are these feelings now influencing your current leadership and your actions?

Lee Krevat:

It’s interesting that you mentioned anger. I just want to address that.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah.

Lee Krevat:

For me, it’s hard to get angry about it, because I’ve been involved with so many aspects of the space. I understand that most of the people, even the people that are doing the bulk of the damage … I guess some of them are bad people, but for the most part … they have jobs, they’re trying to feed their families. And they 1,000 excuses. And it’s hard for them because they’ve been raised in a way that they appreciate money and getting promotions. It’s very difficult for them to take action against that, basically get fired or quit. It’s just a difficult thing.

Lee Krevat:

And I know that personally, because you asked: What am I doing about it, as a leader? And four years ago I left a very high paying job to be out on my own. I decided … I got this from another guy who was on my podcast, Marco Vangelisti his name was, I believe. And he said he developed a sense of enough. So I developed a sense of enough, and said, “Okay, I need to do something about this problem.” I was very lucky to be involved with Smart Grid and to be involved with Sempra Renewables, where I actually launched our distributed renewable energy campaign and efforts in that space. So I got to be involved with doing what I consider to be the right thing, to do something about the problem. I think the day it was announced that we were selling Sempra Renewables, which is where I worked, I decided that the company wasn’t for me. And that’s when I decided to leave and go out on my own.

Lee Krevat:

And what I do now … it’s funny, when I went out on my own initially, it was very easy to get distracted with consulting deals that weren’t really focused on climate change mitigation; which is the reason I left. So it took me about six months, maybe a year, to unwind any of those consulting agreements and really just focus on advising companies that are really trying to make a difference. And that’s what I do every day.

Lee Krevat:

And it’s interesting, I have a list of to-dos. And I do filter them and make sure I am doing this to help. I don’t want to be doing it to make money anymore. I’ve had that kind of a life. I just want to be part of the solution. And you talk about your numbers. And seven is a communicator. I do feel that that is something I can do. And that’s why I focus as much as I can on communicating, not only through a podcast but sitting on these advisory boards and boards of these companies. I introduce them to venture capital, I introduce them to each other. I find customers for them, if I can. I give them advice. Whatever I can do to help.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Yeah. So you’re bringing up a number of really fascinating points. One is how you set priorities. And then also you mentioned the … we had a conversation about Enneagram, and we’re thinking that maybe you’re an Enneagram type seven. Certainly, you’ve migrated to a role that is very aligned with being an Enneagram type seven. So I want to just explore both of those things a little bit.

Matt Schlegel:

So if you feel comfortable, I would love to hear how you establish your priorities in terms of where you want to focus your energy in your consulting practice?

Lee Krevat:

That’s a good question, because prioritization has never been a strong suit of mind. Even when I was pretty high up in management, I still found I wanted to say yes to everybody. And I feel like, for the most part, I’m still doing that. That’s why I have my little to-do list, and I put stars next to the things I just have to get done. And those priorities, some things are just urgent because they’re due today, like doing this discussion. We agreed to do it so I’m going to deliver on that.

Lee Krevat:

But I think number one for me is getting the word out wherever I can. I like doing content, I guess. So I’m attracted to that. So it’s easier for me to do that. The behind the scenes things are harder for me to do, like the administration work of that. So sometimes it takes me a lot longer to edit a podcast episode than actually record it initially, for example. And the other thing I really like to do, and I consider a top priority, is if any of the companies that I have any relationship with at all need me to help, then I put that at the top of the queue.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Well, it’s really interesting, and it’s a nice segue to Enneagram type seven. Because Enneagram type sevens love doing new, exciting stuff all the time. And opportunities to connect with people are some of the most exciting things for the sevens. So I can see how you prioritize those. And the thought of doing back office detailed grudge work is like, “Ugh, don’t want to do that.”

Lee Krevat:

But let me just say, I give tons of credit to people that do that. And I wish-

Matt Schlegel:

Exactly.

Lee Krevat:

And I’ve tried to get stronger at it. I used to think that I was very valuable as an employee because I had a lot of ideas, all the time a lot of ideas. But then I learned that ideas that aren’t done, that you don’t have the wherewithal to follow-up on and actually get them done, they don’t really count for much. So you have to be more well-rounded than that. You not only need the idea, but you have to have the drive to take it to full completion.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah. And sevens are great at … I call them the honeybees of the Enneagram, because they buzz around and they pick up ideas everywhere like pollen, and then bring it back and work with the hive to make honey. So it seems like you’re very good at that. And that’s why sevens will often partner with other people who compliment them on the things that they don’t like to do, so they can focus on the things they love to do. And that’s true for everybody, I think.

Lee Krevat:

I’ll give a plug to the Smart Grid team that I led back at San Diego Gas & Electric that you talked about, because my team was so awesome and balanced. We didn’t do an Enneagram test, so we don’t know, but each of them seemed to have such amazing skills. It was one of the best teams I’ve ever been on, and I’ve been on some great teams. But what I really liked is they let me go off and do what I needed to do, to think, to mix ideas together and to create. And they made real things happen on the back end. So without them, I was nothing.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a team.

Matt Schlegel:

Hey, and I also just want to plug the importance of what you’re doing. Because type sevens are great communicators and they’re great at getting ideas out into the community. And that is so important for the climate movement. So I’m very appreciative of everything that you’re doing, and that very optimistic, hopeful view that you give us as you are helping us understand where we are. So thank you so much for that.

Lee Krevat:

Wow. You’re very welcome. And it is really my pleasure. It’s what I feel like I was born to do. It’s putting everything, my entire career, together, to finally do, I feel, what I was meant to do.

Matt Schlegel:

Oh, that is perfect. Perfect. Purpose combined with all of your talents and away you go. Right?

Lee Krevat:

Well, that’s why I do an improvised rap at the end of my interviews, like I did with you. Which I know floored you because you know I made it up right there [inaudible 00:13:42].

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. It was great.

Lee Krevat:

Without even pausing to think, pretty much. And that just combines another one of my passions. I try to put them all together.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes. Yeah. That is great.

Matt Schlegel:

So now, what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders, maybe young adults who are now at outset of their career and wanting to do something to address the climate crisis, and they’re having these feelings? And what advice would you give to anybody who’s starting to have strong feelings about the climate crisis?

Lee Krevat:

Well, for me, it took a long time in my career to get more than a single win, whatever you call it, a single bottom line win. I don’t know the proper term for it. But I was focused on promotion and money. And I got into whatever I did, whatever I did I saw new ideas, how to do it, and I enjoyed it. So it gave me personal satisfaction.

Lee Krevat:

It took me a while in my career to realize … I won’t get into it. I have a long story about it … but when I realized, “Wow, you can do more than make money and get promotions. You can actually help the world.” And once I realized that, boy, it’s hard not to do it because it’s important. So it was a journey for me to do it with more and more of my time, and worry less about the financial aspects of what I do.

Lee Krevat:

That being said, I think for a lot of people, they have to earn money. They don’t have enough yet. So I think it’s important that they find that balance. Make what you need to live and make sure that you’re satisfied with what you do. But if you can follow your passion and make a difference in the world, there’s nothing like that. Because then you don’t mind working, it never feels like work. It always feels like you’re doing what you should be doing in the world.

Lee Krevat:

And I’ll tell you, I have two daughters; both incredibly wonderful. Both became computer scientists, like myself. And both are trying to find a way, both of them, how do they do that in a way that helps the world? It isn’t enough that they’re just making a good living. I’m so proud of them both.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Yeah. That is great. And I really like your emphasis on the word, enough. We both are living in the United States, and oftentimes it’s a culture that glorifies money and glorifies profits. And we become inculturated into believing that, “Oh, that’s what we should be working on, is enriching ourselves.” And you’ve come to this realization that that’s not the end goal. There are other ways of living a life, where you have enough and that you can build into purpose with other activities that are broader than just pursuing money and that will help all of us, at the end of the day, create a more habitable environment and help sustain humanity. So I really just so appreciate that perspective that you have.

Lee Krevat:

But I really do understand, people need to earn a living. So everybody can’t just say, “I’m not doing my job.”

Lee Krevat:

And another thing that’s interesting is some people will say that I retired. I don’t even know what that word means, because as long as I have energy what’s the point of just playing golf? And I do know people that enjoy that, and that’s fine. But I feel like I’m here for a reason, so I don’t feel that I’ll retire while I can make a difference in the world.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Well, thank you so much, Lee. I just love all of these ideas that you’ve shared. I love that you’re on your journey of understanding your Enneagram type, and how that even plays into where your focus is and where you feel most impassioned to make commitments to help the planet and help humanity. I really applaud you for all the great work you’re doing and for your wonderful rap songs at the end of your podcasts. Those are brilliant.

Lee Krevat:

Thank you. Can I add one thing that we talked about on the podcast?

Matt Schlegel:

Of course.

Lee Krevat:

Which we just released today. And one thing that you mentioned, which I thought was brilliant, I really appreciated it, was you said that you believe that we can take action and we can overcome this. And you believe that what it takes … because I express some doubt that the whole world could ever get together and do anything. Because we haven’t done that. A company can barely figure out what they want to do and get everybody on the same page. Certainly, our country can’t figure that out. So how can the world? But you said that when you have injustice, deep injustice, and when you have … and I’m forgetting the other piece-

Matt Schlegel:

Existential threat.

Lee Krevat:

… an existential threat. So when you have injustice and a threat, that that is motivation to make change happen.

Lee Krevat:

And what’s really interesting is I found a counter to what I had said about the world not coming together. My wife and I saw a movie last night, I think it was called 13 Lives, about the Thai soccer team that got lost in the caves and got stranded in the caves for over two weeks. And in that movie … and I believe this really happened … thousands of people got together, and many of them from other countries. People just stopped caring about their own specific needs. People gave up a lot to go there and to risk their lives, by diving and going through these crazy caves and tunnels to rescue these children.

Lee Krevat:

And, to me, that’s an example of an injustice: children dying. Obviously, that’s a deep injustice. And an existential threat, maybe not to the world but to their lives. So the world did come together and everybody went to help. So I do think that you’re right. I think if you have those factors we can make a difference, the whole world could come together and make a difference.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. And it’s amazing, humanity’s ability to empathize. Because the people who went in to rescue them, they weren’t in that situation. But they had this empathetic response to their plight and it compelled them into action, to help. I think, as we move into more and more urgent crises related to the climate, I think more and more people are going to have these types of empathetic reactions and want to help. And why it’s so important for them to hear your voice, because you’ve already gone through that, you’ve already had those feelings. And now you’ve found this role for yourself that is very productive and helping get the word out about possibilities to solve the climate crisis.

Matt Schlegel:

So exactly, it’s going to help all of us to have these empathetic, emotional reactions, that bring us to the table in terms of solving the crisis.

Lee Krevat:

And you also said on my podcast to listen to your emotions and listen to your passions, and let your emotions drive you to follow your passions and help in the way that you can help and that you can make a difference. Because we’re all different numbers and we all have different ways. I might be a seven, but we need everybody in the game. Everybody has something to give.

Lee Krevat:

And in this movie divers dove, and other people handle the logistics, and other people diverted the water from continuing to fill the caves. So different people had different knowledge and different capabilities, and that’s how they contributed. So, again, you are right on.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Right? It’s going to take all of us and we all have something to contribute. Absolutely.

Matt Schlegel:

Well, thank you, Lee. And thanks again for the great conversations and for sharing your feelings and your emotional journey that brought you to where you are today in your climate leadership. So thanks again.

Lee Krevat:

You’re very welcome. And thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for listening. I really appreciate how Lee describes how he cycles between being nervous and scared about what the science is telling us and being hopeful and optimistic about the amazing people he meets who are working on climate, and the amazing solutions that are emerging.

Matt Schlegel:

Also, Lee highlights the sense of enough. He felt like he had had enough, and set out to focus on work that directly addresses the climate crisis. He has blended all his talents: his communication skills, his networking skills, his expertise in the energy sector, and of course his rapping skills, into a wonderful podcast, the Climate Champions podcast, where he can bring all of those talents together and get the message out about the great things that are happening to address the climate crisis.

Matt Schlegel:

So if you found this helpful, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to get notifications of future episodes. Thanks again for listening.

 

Award-winning national broadcast journalist and co-founder, host and producer of Green TV, Betsy Rosenberg, focused on getting corporate media to pay attention to the climate crisis for years and felt alone in her mission.  Undaunted, her feelings about the crisis motivated her to persist. Now she’s finding more liked-minded people with a similar vision to have a media outlet – GreenTV.com – devoted to climate solutions.  GreenTV.com highlights climate solution entrepreneurs who Betsy calls Solutionaries.

Subscribe to GreenTV.com — https://www.youtube.com/c/GreenTVcom — help get the channel to 1000 subscribers so they can livestream!

#Leadership, #Commitment, #EmotionalIntelligence, #EQ, #climatechange

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:                   Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with award-winning national broadcast journalist, Betsy Rosenberg, who now hosts and produces greentv.com. Betsy provides ways for her audience to take action to address the climate crisis. And now for the conversation. I’m delighted to be speaking with Betsy Rosenberg, co-founder, host, and producer of GreenTV. Betsy is an award-winning national broadcast journalist who spent the first half of her career as a reporter and anchor with the CBS Radio News network. In 1997, Betsy launched Trash Talk minutes, the first green programming to air on a corporate media outlet. Betsy’s also a writer having written many articles and contributed to the book Climate Abandoned: We’re on the Endangered List. Her latest project greentv.com focuses on presenting actionable solutions to the climate crisis. Betsy, thank you for joining me today, and welcome.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Thank you so much, Matt, for having me. It’s been fun being friends on Facebook but face-to-face is always much better.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yes, indeed, indeed. Well, I’d like to start off and just ask you how you’re feeling now about the climate crisis?

Betsy Rosenberg:             That’s probably the biggest question you could ask. Because if you ask me how I feel about my daughter, who’s getting married this year, it’s love, love, love. Okay, next question, climate. Wow, it’s complicated, isn’t it? It’s a love-hate relationship. I am as passionate as the day I started. And as you mentioned, I started out with garbage and then moved to global warming and thought, wow, that’s even more scary and important than what’s going into our landfills, what’s coming out of our tailpipes and factory pipes. And I’ve been covering it a long time. It’s been a long, lonely, expensive, frustrating beat, but at the same time the most exciting educating experience I’ve ever had, and that’s because I’ve been interviewing what I call the solutionaries. People who are in the forefront of their greenfield and that everybody, not just climate but oceans, and plastic, and food, and fashion, and energy, and the economy, and everything under the sun because everything needs to change.

We need to transition to a much more sustainable energy system economy. We’re really at that moment right now as an inflection point where people are starting to wake up and smell the carbon, as I say, and we need to get off our gases and we need to do it yesterday. And it’s no small job and it’s not going to be easy. How do I feel right now? Good news, bad news. The good news is the bad news. The bad news is, extreme weather can no longer be denied, it cannot be ignored, even though there’s still some who are trying. We can maybe touch on that. I call them the deniasaurs, shame on them, especially at this moment. The middle of 2022 with record heat waves, and droughts, and floods, and that’s just in the last two weeks.

At this moment, people are starting to be appropriately concerned and that’s the good news, but it’s too bad it took the bad news. Meaning, the extreme weather that was predicted for decades down the road by climate scientists is here already. That scares that you know what out of me, and I’m sure you and everybody who’s working in this area. So I guess we’re going to get it all over with quickly. Either the transition or the end.

Matt Schlegel:                   Well, so you just used the word scared. And when I hear that word scared, I think of anxiety. What I’ve found is that there are really three main feelings that people come to the climate crisis with. It’s either sadness or grief, depression, that’s one category. The other one is-

Betsy Rosenberg:             I feel that, by the way, daily. I feel all that too.

Matt Schlegel:                   Right. The other one is anger. And then the other one is anxiety. It’s uh.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Nothing good, nothing good. Well, that’s not true, there is some … We’ll get to them.

Matt Schlegel:                   And I think people who’ve been in this for a long time cycle through all of these. But what would you say is your starting point? Which one do you think really drives you?

Betsy Rosenberg:             The passion comes from, it’s just not okay to let this precious planet die, and especially on our watch. I’m a baby boomer, young end of baby boomers. And when I was growing up we were hiding under our desk fear of nuclear bombs, that was the big threat. Those desks would’ve probably not done much, but now we have a much more real present danger and it’s coming from us. And it’s not our fault, we humans, we didn’t know what we brought. But now that we know it should be stop the processes, the government should be handing out solar panels. It should just be all hands on decks. The fact that in a big way we’re not there yet, it’ll be real interesting to see what happens next. Are we going to really ramp up quickly like we need to because it is late in the game? That part drives me crazy.

I’m not afraid from my life because I probably … No, I won’t say the worst of it, but I have a daughter who’s 27 getting married this year, and hopes to have a child or two. She was an only child so I certainly wanted a grandchild or two. I have such dread. And then I get angry especially because of the deniasaurs still in media saying, “It’s a hoax, it’s good for you,” and all that crap. My daughter’s a first-world privileged person. Think of the people in the global south. I get so angry and I just say, “This is just not okay.”

And it’s not okay that my former industry, broadcast news, for so long, too long was silent really. You would barely hear climate change mentioned. Now they do. It’s almost like they’re so proud of themselves that they discovered its news. I could’ve told you that when I was pitching you a show on solutions CNN seven years ago, five years ago, three years ago. NBC two years ago. But okay. They really resisted, that’s another part of the story. But the fact that it is finally getting covered but not nearly enough. It’s really the tip of the melting iceberg as I say.

I’ve done some 1200 radio shows that adds up to a crazy number. 4,500 interviews during the last 20 years. Where was CNN? They had much more access than little old Betsy Rosenberg to these stories, to these guests. And the fact that I’ve been pitching them, including directly to Jeff Zucker twice at Sundance, cornered him in the CNN VIP lounge. There’s arrogance there and there’s ignorance there. They don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t think it’s going to be popular, they don’t want to alienate their fossil fuel advertisers. So they’re covering it more now than they did but it’s not nearly enough. And to show them that we started GreenTV, which we’re hoping will be a 24/7 green news network, GNN, and we’ll show them how much they’re missing. Let’s see, what was I answering?

Matt Schlegel:                   Well, no, no. I mean, that’s perfect. I mean, you really led right into what my next question was going to be. You’re having all these feelings and you’ve gone through all of these cycles. How are they guiding you today? How are you directing that passion that you’re having and where are you putting that energy into?

Betsy Rosenberg:             Well, the good news, Matt, for me is I was doing it alone for all those years and that was really hard. Everyone from friends to family just thought, oh, that’s really nice that you’re doing that, Betsy. Although my family not so much, they thought I went off the deep end which I guess I did. Because once you know what you know it’s hard to make anything else important other than loved ones, family. And for a while, they didn’t know, but I said, “No, you guys are my,” … This is why I’m doing it, I’m doing it for my daughter’s future grandchildren, everybody’s future grandchildren.

What has really kept me going is again, this is just not okay. But the fact that people are waking up now and the fact that I have found a team, GreenTV found me about a year ago. And so we have group of 10 volunteers, two young college interns, the rest of us all have experience in environmental work in some capacity, some production experience, some journalist experience, and together we’re growing. Everyone who comes is invited to our meetings because they have a similar vision, It joins up. It’s sort of like the pied piper. So we know we’ve got something that’s needed right now and that’s exciting. So that’s the positive part of the last long, lonely, expensive two and a half decades.

Matt Schlegel:                   Right. Thank you so much for your persistence and your ability to work through all these feelings that you’ve had and end up being so energized and productive out of it. I’m like what is your secret for doing that because-

Betsy Rosenberg:             You don’t want it, you don’t want to know.

Matt Schlegel:                   I want some of that.

Betsy Rosenberg:             You do not want to know. It’s a double-edged sword this passion really so I can’t turn it off, okay. Even if I wanted to, and I’ve at times thought this is crazy I didn’t choose this, it chose me. I didn’t plan to do this the rest of my career. I didn’t plan to spend a small fortune, all my savings and then some, and had to move to Texas because we spent a lot. We lived in the Bay Area. I mean, that’s the level of dedication and it’s not unique to me. Like I said, once you know. So thank you for acknowledging it. And there’s plenty of people who are equally passionate and dedicated. I think I’m really the only one in mainstream media who has been really banging on the door for this long because if there was anybody else I would’ve teamed up with them long ago happily.

So I really pride myself on having been a real thorn in the side of the network news executives who, in my opinion, are not leaders at all. They’re just wrong to make it a popularity thing. Pull show people who aren’t interested in climate change. I pitched to CNN a series for their original series department, meet the solutionaries, where we’d go all across the country. What I’m doing now but on Zoom because of COVID, and interview the people who are in the forefront of their fields who are absolutely excited, jazzed up, just so passionate, and charming, and knowledgeable, and we should be tapping into their wisdom now. So that’s what I offered them and they said, “No, we don’t think our viewers would be interested in the six-part series on the environment.” I said, “How do you know because you’ve never had it?” And I had a show on Air America, which probably nobody remembers, but it was a liberal radio network. Someone named Rachel Maddow was on opposite. One of us went on to TV fame and fortune.

Matt Schlegel:                   I still listen to Sam Seder.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Oh my God. Okay. Sam was on there. Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank. Al Franken was on there and a few other people. Janeane Garofalo. That was 2004 to 2007. I had a show called Eco Talk and it was one hour of two or three segments so I’d find people to interview, and I never had a shortage and I will never have a shortage because there’s so many problems, and there’s so many solutions, and there’s so many wonderful solutionaries who know exactly what we need to do. And the fact that they’ve not been introduced to the mainstream public other than an occasional TV interview or maybe a earth day longer segment, it’s not even a show, though we did one on climate change Earth Day a year or two ago. It can’t be once a year.

We plan mother earth every day, every hour, every minute. If you don’t believe me, try going without food, air, or water, get back to me. It’s just insanely out of proportion to not only the size of the problem, challenge, which is epic but the importance of it. I mean, it almost sounds ridiculous. We’ve got humanity is hanging in the balance. Hello, can anyone stop tennis or lunch or whatever job you hate, come join us we need you. It’s been surreal for sure. The good news is, as people wake up, those of us who have been not able to sleep and lying awake too much are going okay, okay, thank you, come aboard, now we can get a little more sleep because you’re getting a little less sleep. And if everybody did their little part we could turn it around. No, it’s too late to stop climate change, we could slow the worst of it.

And it’s not just climate, it’s the oceans, its extinction, its biodiversity, it’s our food system. Water is the new oil. We’ve been saying that for 20 years, now it’s happening. I was in Italy last month, and we’ve been lucky enough to travel there a few times. I was on a panel there about immobility and the transition to the electric grid because it was utility companies and oil and gas managers. That was an interesting audience, not my usual. I could not even enjoy going out to dinner because the river-

Matt Schlegel:                   It’s completely dry.

Betsy Rosenberg:             That usually runs through Rome is almost dry. And I saw that and know what it pretends, not that I’m the only one, but I just was sick to my stomach. I lost my appetite, I really couldn’t even eat. Pizza and pasta in Italy. I mean, it was alarming. The day of our panel, which was Wednesday, June 22nd, the Italian government announced a state of … What do they call it? Not emergency but something with the state. State of calamity, I guess that’s the translation. It is extreme. And that was before the second major heat wave. And while we were away, of course, it was happening in the states and we’ve since had another one. I live in Texas now, and it’s been in the triple digits for the last two or three weeks. Luckily for me, I’m not there.

It’s dangerous, it’s scary, it’s happening. The government should be handing out solar panels. It should be really stop all other news, this is the story. Because you know what? If we don’t get this right nothing’s going to matter, not our abortion and gun control. Important issues but there’s no good gun control on a bad planet. There’s no good economy on a bad planet. There’s no good anything on a bad planet. And we’re turning a incredibly good one into something that we’re not going to recognize. Our children and grandchildren may not recognize, a barren landscape. That makes me angry, and sad and fires me up no end.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yes. Well, I’m glad to hear it, and I’m glad you’re still in the fight and continuing this. So what I’d like to do then is ask you, what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders who are starting to have their own feelings about climate, and starting to wake up to climate reality? And maybe you could answer that, in general, but maybe you could answer that specifically for journalists and people in media who are now … They’re already in that system, and they’re having these feelings. What would you recommend that they do?

Betsy Rosenberg:             I always say listen because I did radio for so long. This is going to sound like a shameless plug but none of us get paid, this is not about me. Watch GreenTV because we have interviews with the leaders in their fields and that’s a start because I’ve learned so much from the people that I interview and we have fun with it. We laugh, we cry. But okay, that’s a half-serious answer. Beyond that, welcome, thank you, we’ve been waiting for you, where have you been? The cavalry is starting to arrive. This is the biggest story you’ll ever cover, nothing else will compare. It’s not your imagination that it’s overwhelming. Acknowledge that. It’s not your imagination that you’ve wondered where you’ve been and where your editors have been all these years. The last 20, 25 years that some of us have been talking about it and it seems like nobody’s been listening, but it’s not too late, it’s not too late at all.

Not an ounce of emission but a ton of emissions makes a difference. Don’t think that it’s oh, it’s too late because it feels like we went as a society, not just in this country but especially here, oh, problem what problems? Especially certain politicians. To oh, it’s too late we’re screwed. Of course, Betsy. I’m naive because I think there’s hope. Oh really, did we give up on the next generation? I missed that memo that said, “Nothing’s going to be left for our kids and grandkids.” Just know, especially you journalists new to the climate or environmental beat, you’re on the most important beat there is. I couldn’t understand for years, where is everybody? I wasn’t the only one, but in broadcast media, I was for many, many years.

It’s just, unfortunately, a lot of right-wing media has really obscured and continues to try to downplay the dangers and that makes me madder than anything. I’ve been on Sean Hannity 15 times, and most recently up against a deniasaur named Alex Epstein on NewsNation who has written two books about the rosy future of fossil fuels. That, unfortunately, is part of the reason that journalists are now just getting assigned the climate beat when it should have been something that was clearly real years and years ago. It’s all connected in my mind anyway, connect all these dots. But know that it’s important, know that you need to take self-take breaks and self-care. What do I mean by that? Exercise, deep breaths, all the usual things. Yoga, meditation, therapy, whatever it takes. But mostly know that you’re part of a community, and it’s a growing community.

I get choked up because the people who do this work, it’s hard. It’s really hard. Because when I think about what my daughter’s poor children or child, what year it will be, 2030, 2050, and if we continue with business as usual, which will be the worst case scenario, it’s going to be a very, very tough life. And the thought of starting new life at this point in our civilization where it really feels like the beginning of the end. I used to think I was maybe overly dramatic, I’m reading too much, I’m immersed in it. I have a personality that scans the horizon for signs of trouble because of my upbringing. But then I’m reading and hearing so many people saying, “No, it is as bad as you think.” It’s like oh, I really thought it was me exaggerating it.

Just we need you, we need everybody. I say there’s a way to put a green twist on any job you’re in. If it’s building, go to green buildings. If it’s law, be an environmental lawyer. If it’s nutritionists, look into plant-based diets. If you’re a physician, look at integrated medicine. All the things that are much more in touch with nature and much healthier. And whatever it is, I can give you a green tip. And when I talk to college students like that because they’re so used to oh, this climate change lady’s going to come depress us even more. I say two things. One, I’m giving you a green lead. I’m getting out in front of the elephant and it’s a divot and it’s going to happen so be ready. You’ll have future secure position and career because we’re here as far as sustainability goes and we have to go here. I say to them, “If you hope to have children, and you’re going to be in demand, you just are so get ready for it.” And they get excited about that.

And the other thing I say is, “Go home and tell your parents to get off their couches and get off their gases.” And this is where Bill McKibben and I had this in common. That people my age, 50s, 60s, 70s … I’m not close to retiring but some people are, and they have more time and money, and especially parents and grandparents. Don’t just take up golf, don’t just take up Mahjong, take up the planet, take up doing your part to undo some of the damage that we as a generation and prior have done, but we’ve known about it for at least 20, 30 years since James Hansen testified in Congress in 1988. I’m all over the map here, Matt.

Matt Schlegel:                   No, you’re not, you’re actually spot on. I mean, it was just brilliant all of the great suggestions that you provided us here.

Betsy Rosenberg:             You will not be wasting your time. I guess that’s what I want to say to anybody who puts a twist of lime, a green tint on their careers. The most important thing you could do. And by the way, thank you for your 420 parts per million because I do a random quiz when I am speaking or talking to friends who are not green. I say, “How many parts per million of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere do you think there? Who’s Bill McKibben? Which extinction are we in the middle of?” I mean, I think it’s funny.

Matt Schlegel:                   We just need to get the word out.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Okay, let’s-

Matt Schlegel:                   It’s really hard.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Let’s get to that. Let’s get to that.

Matt Schlegel:                   Our media environment just is not conducive to these types of conversations. And you are so spot on when you say, one, we can start now, and any action we take now will help us reduce-

Betsy Rosenberg:             Absolutely makes a difference.

Matt Schlegel:                   The problem later. And if we all did that it would just that much better.

Betsy Rosenberg:             And your families, and your friends, and neighbors will see you. We put our solar panels on in our neighborhood in Texas, we had to fight our neighbors for it. We live in oil and gas country, Hill Country. But then another neighbor came to us and said, “Oh, tell us about your solar panels.” We have electric cars, and we started to see more electric cars in the neighborhood. We’re social creatures, and it really does matter. Even if you can’t change your career, it’s what you do. And talk about it everywhere you go. We all need to be ambassadors.

Matt Schlegel:                   Thank you again, Betsy, I really appreciate your time today. And thanks again for all your efforts.

Betsy Rosenberg:             Likewise. And I want to tell everybody to go forth and greenify. Whatever that means, make it greener. Thanks.

Matt Schlegel:                   Thanks for listening. Betsy’s focused her career on getting corporate media to pay attention to the climate crisis, and she’s done that for years now and felt alone in her mission. Now she feels like she’s finding more like-minded people who have a similar vision to have a media outlet devoted to climate solutions. Please help by subscribing to greentv.com to get her channel to 1,000 subscribers so that she can start live streaming her content. I’ve put the link to the greentv.com channel in the show notes. If you found this conversation helpful, please click on the thumbs-up button and subscribe to our channel to get notification of future episodes. And if you have any questions, please leave them in the comments section and I’ll respond as soon as I can. Thanks again.