• Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar
  • Skip to footer

Schlegel Consulting

Evolutionary Team Effectiveness

  • Home
  • Services
  • Success Stories
  • FAQ
  • Blog
  • Contact
  • This Book’s For You

Blog

Climate Leader Martin Stanley Gets Energy From Feelings and Trees

September 20, 2022 by Matt Schlegel Leave a Comment

Martin Stanley who goes by his nickname “Stan” shows us how we can address the climate crisis in any occupation or endeavor we undertake.  Stan is CEO at Treewise, a UK-based vegetation risk management service that keeps trees from disrupting critical infrastructure like electrical power lines. Stan is passionate about turning tree cuttings into energy that helps reduce the need for fossil fuels and their unwanted emissions.

More about Stan here:

Martin Stanley, known to his friends and colleagues as Stan

Stan is a passionate and committed entrepreneur, who built and sold his first Tree Surgery company to FTSE250 company in 2009.

More recently Stan developed and patented game changing methodologies for the way we manage trees a ”Assets” in particular around powerline and rail track Rights of Way.

To validate Stans methodologies he secured £2.1m funding from the European & UK Space Agency where his project identified how to efficiently measure trees with geospatial data. Measuring trees is one thing but with global warming it was apparent more and more waste was being produced from tree surgery and forestry operations.

As ever with the entrepreneur spirit Stan looked at doing something more efficient with the waste, something to better the environment, so with his UK based company Treewise has now partnered with a European technology provider who are leading a Blue Revolution, and between them their delivering ground-breaking projects where they turn tree waste into Hydrogen, food grade carbon dioxide or electricity, at the same time capture carbon in the process.

Stan also presents his other projects on the international vegetation conference circuits which include:

  • Establishing ground-breaking principles on effectively processing LiDAR data for vegetation management for field crews and regulatory reporting
  • Working with University of Leicester established new principles for using high spatial resolution, multi spectral satellite imagery for a new wildfire ignition risk index

www.tree-wise.com

#Leadership #Energy  #climatechange #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Martin Stanley, who is using his feelings about the climate crisis to fuel the transformation of the tree maintenance industry into a source of green energy. And now for the conversation.

Matt Schlegel:

Today, I’m joined by Martin Stanley, who goes by his nickname, Stan. Stan is CEO at Treewise, a UK based vegetation risk management service that keeps trees from disrupting critical infrastructure like electrical power lines. Stan has increasingly become concerned about the climate crisis and realized that he could take innovative steps in his own business to develop alternative energy sources that will move us away from extracting and burning fossil fuels. I’m eager to hear about his climate journey. Thank you Stan for joining me today.

Martin Stanley:

Thanks Matt it’s an absolute pleasure. It’s great to be on your podcast so thanks for inviting me. I must say I’ve seen some of your previous podcasts and must give a big shout out I think to Betsy Rosenberg, I think I’m a big fan there. Some great comments there. “Wake up, smell the carbon” was great and “Go forth and greenify” I thought brilliant, when’s the t-shirts coming out?

Matt Schlegel:

Yes, yes. Yeah, she is great with her Betsy-isms, I love them. So thanks again for joining me today and I would like to start off and just ask you how you’re feeling about the climate crisis now?

Martin Stanley:

Well I mean it makes me very angry, the state of the crisis at the minute. I mean we live on a beautiful planet, which over billions of years, nature has made incredibly robust, diverse, and successful. The one thing that keeps it all in check and keeps us alive, the atmosphere, we’re destroying. And yeah it concerns me because it seems as a race that we’re happy to do that.

Martin Stanley:

And we often ask the question, why are these things happening? We like to understand it and obviously it comes down to people’s choices I think. Choices and the decisions that people make, a decision leads one way or another and obviously I think all in all we seem to be making some poor decisions. Whether it comes back down to education, is it the government? Is it society? I don’t know. I have to ask myself with the things I’ve seen in business that in today’s world it’s often about the bottom line. The pounds, the dollars, the euros that sort of call the shots and they seem to override some of the common sense about what we do with the environment. And its as somebody said to me recently, there’s a lot of pressures on businesses and sometimes it’s just about doing the right thing.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. And it is really interesting that you bring up anger and so many people they come into their climate journey from a different point. Some through grief or sadness or some through anxiety. So it’s really interesting that you highlight anger, which is a perfectly valid response and a perfectly valid feeling. And in your business you are out in nature all the time. You are with the trees and you’re working with the trees and you’re managing and preserving them and I can imagine that also impacts you as you see all of your tree friends being impacted.

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely, yeah. And I suppose mentioning the world of trees, it’s where we started off and when we looked at how better to manage trees, in relation to power lines, the best time to prune them, the best times to work on them, it’s an industry that we say that… I don’t think there’s another industry with so many anomalies because we have different tree species, different growth rates, different landowners, voltages, safety distance to work with. And one of the things to help us look at the impact of managing trees is the methodologies we’ve produced where we manage trees as assets, which was great for the operational side of life. Then we started to learn about the environmental benefits we could add to that.

Martin Stanley:

So when we looked at a tree as an asset, we also thought, well actually it’s not just about safety clearances, it’s about the environmental, the green tag to that.

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Martin Stanley:

What’s the benefits of that tree if we remove it, what would be done to the wildlife habitat? What’s it mean in terms of biodiversity? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? And all that builds up into what we call the green balance sheets. So when we’re working on power lines, we have power line corridors and we look at what that means in terms of a green balance sheet and biodiversity.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. So just taking a much more holistic view of the tree and all the benefits that we accrue from that tree being in our environment. I think that’s great. So you mentioned anger specifically, and I’m just wondering now, how are the feelings that you’re having, anger, whichever that you’re having, how are they influencing your behaviors and your direction as a leader?

Martin Stanley:

Well, it’s an interesting one because there’s many roads we could take with this, but what became really apparent through the work we did, it was validating some projects working alongside European Space Agency. So that led us into looking deeper into data for climate, particularly with the Met Office and certainly-

Matt Schlegel:

And the Met office is the UK version that looks at weather, right? It’s the weather, the National Weather Service?

Martin Stanley:

That’s right, yes. And certainly in terms of UK and the climate we have, we’re getting longer growing seasons, so we’re getting up to 336 growing days a year. So when we said to the Met Office, “What’s that mean more in real terms, in layman’s terms?” So they said that the growing seasons actually kick in when the temperature is five degrees or more for five consecutive days and then the growing season ends when the temperatures five degrees or less for five consecutive days. So the example of the UK over the last 10 years, we’ve gained an extra month of growing season compared to the last 40 years. So this is all down to climate warming.

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Martin Stanley:

So what that means for us, we’re getting more tree growth. So more growth means on the maintenance operations we’re getting a lot more waste. So if we take a context of the UK, and as we said the National Critical Infrastructure, just say power, rail and highways, we would estimate 2 million tons of waste are produced each year. So if you like to take the anger out and channel it in the right direction, we started to do some more research and ended up teaming up with a company in the Netherlands that make a very clever technology to actually do something useful with this waste. So it’s a process whereby we can feed waste into, for a better word, a gas fire machine, and we can turn that green waste into either hydrogen, food grade carbon dioxide or electricity. And the beauty is because it’s carbon based waste it captures the carbon in the same process. So we’ve actually nicknamed this within the company, the Magic Machiner.

Matt Schlegel:

Nice, nice. So that’s amazing. So as a part of your business, you have this waste, you’re finding you’re getting more and more from the lengthening growing season and then you found an innovative solution through this company. And do you want to tell us the name of the company that you’re partnering with?

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely. The company’s name is BlueRevo based in the Netherlands, and a quick www.bluerevo.nl and you can check them out. They are leaders in what’s known as the Blue Revolution. It’s an amazing technology that’s been developed and certainly for what was in the tree and forestry industry, it’s going to absolutely revolutionize how we operate.

Matt Schlegel:

Oh wow.

Martin Stanley:

It will take the road miles out of [inaudible 00:10:34] if you like, by the way this can be set up. So we’re getting a very low footprint on the carbon waste. The waste itself is unwanted material, so it’s a win-win. And every day that we use it, we are capturing carbon.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. I mean, that’s brilliant. That’s such a great way to address what you’re seeing, what somebody might see as a growing waste problem, but you’re saying no, here’s an opportunity for us to capture that carbon and then turn it into something useful that will provide energy and allow us to move off of fossil fuels. So that is brilliant.

Martin Stanley:

Yeah and it’s a dream scenario. So again, for the power companies that are producing their own waste, they can install these machines into their depots and as the waste comes back at the end of the day, it can be figured to produce different products. So if the company’s recently invested in the electric vehicles, they can charge the electric vehicles within their own environment from their own waste. And it’s the same as hydrogen for the crews that could adapt hydrogen vehicles, again they can bring their own waste back to create the hydrogen, they fuel the vehicles and fleet them back into the field the next day. So it’s an absolute dream scenario.

Matt Schlegel:

And it sounds like it’s very localized. So you are not transporting these materials long distances. You’re collecting them locally and then you are converting them into these useful products locally and being able to use those products locally, it sounds like. So it’s a very self contained system.

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely, and I think the difference compared to what’s out there today in terms of biofuel plants, set int the UK the size of plants will be few and far between, so the feed stock, if you like, that they use has to be taken to them. So that’s arctic lorries, tractors and trailers on the highways collecting road miles as they go. So these are of a size, if you like, 60 feet by 18 by 30 feet if you like. It’s something that’s a unit size that can be installed in local depots.

Martin Stanley:

So the way we look at reducing the road miles and the thought process behind it is that tree surgery crews leave a depot in the morning, it may mean a changing configuration of vehicles as in the carrying waste back, they bring it back at the end of the day. So that journey was being made, there’s no more road miles. With the waste is in one spot and it can be fed through the machine. And I think part of the clever technology behind this, tree surgery waste in this world, in the biofuel world, is often frowned at. But the technology deals with that. So we open up a new market to actually utilize a very low grade waste.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. This is brilliant and we have a lot of trees in my community. I’m in Palo Alto, California, and the city does put a lot of effort into maintaining a tree canopy, but also there’s a lot of maintenance. We have tree crews coming down our street several times a year collecting a lot of tree waste. So I will definitely share this with my city to give them some ideas about how they could use this. This is really brilliant.

Martin Stanley:

We’d appreciate that. Yeah, well we’re open for business, so anybody that wants to contact us for more information, then yeah, please don’t hesitate.

Matt Schlegel:

Absolutely.

Martin Stanley:

It’s an absolutely great opportunity.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes.

Martin Stanley:

Great story and it’s great for the environment.

Matt Schlegel:

So I would like to, as you have come to your realization about the urgency of acting on climate through your feelings, what advice would you give to other leaders and people, aspiring leaders, who they themselves now starting to have feelings about the climate crisis?

Martin Stanley:

Well, I say the first thing, it will always be, I think a long journey. So I’ve been knocking on the doors and trying to break down the barriers for some years now, but I think you’ve got to, if you’re passionate about it, you have to really understand what it exactly is that you’re trying to achieve or explain. I think you need to be very knowledgeable on your own specific subject. Be well read in those matters and never give up. You knock on as many doors as you can and just keep trying. Unless people don’t do that we won’t make the changes.

Matt Schlegel:

Persistence.

Martin Stanley:

Persistence, exactly.

Matt Schlegel:

Persistence is key. And that’s true for any leader. I think any leader appreciates that persistence is key. And I so appreciate how you have taken what you know in your area of expertise and then you’re passionate about climate and then found a way to apply your expertise to helping us solve the climate crisis and to move away from burning fossil fuels. So thank you so much for all you’ve done, all the insights that you’ve brought, all the energy and persistence that you’ve brought. So thank you so much and I wish you all the best and I will be in touch about maybe bringing this to our city. And if there’s any last thoughts you’d like to leave us with, please.

Martin Stanley:

Yeah, no, look just like I said earlier, any further information, we’re here. We’re here to help. Simple as that. Thank you for your time. Really much appreciated.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for listening. Stan’s leadership is such a fantastic example of how you can become a climate leader in whatever occupation you’re in. Stan focused his concerns about the climate crisis towards making his own industry, tree maintenance and management, into a source of green energy, thereby minimizing the use of fossil fuels and their dangerous emissions. If you found this helpful, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to get notifications of future episodes. Thanks again.

 

Filed Under: Climate Crisis, Leadership

Belongingness in the Roaring 2020s

September 5, 2022 by Matt Schlegel Leave a Comment

To Diversity, Equity and Inclusion we are increasing adding Belongingness as a central consideration in creating healthy workspaces and organization.  Here authors Twiana Armstrong, Kimberly Layne and I discuss considerations for leaders who are working to bring belongingness to their organizations.

Kimberly Layne: https://www.kimberly-layne.com/

Twiana Armstrong: https://linkedin.com/in/twianaarmstrong

#Roaring20s #Roaring2020s #leadership #DEI #DEIB #Belongingness

[Video Transcript]

[Twiana Armstrong]

The Diversity, Equity and Inclusion work has added another life element to communal efforts towards building an open, accepting and educated society. DEI and B for belonging or belongingness. Per Wikipedia belonging is a human emotional need to be an accepted member of a group – be it family friends, co-workers, or religion. Belongingness is an art and a science. Art because it is a “complex and dynamic process unique to each person.” And a science because psychologists’ research is believed to have captured and measured this innate and inherit need to belong in infants as young as two weeks old. Belongingness is not new. A sense of belonging comprises one of the concepts of the hierarchy of needs outlined by Abraham Maslow’s paper titled “A Theory of Human Motivation” submitted in 1943. As a reminder, Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is displayed as a pyramid of the 5 human needs: physiological, safety, love/belonging, esteem, and self-actualization. Leaders’ it is fundamentally important to create a belonging culture.  One that is measured by workforce retention and increased productivity. Validate and encourage an accepting workspace community, one that allows employees to show up as their authentic identity, be open to new ways of working, and demonstrate a mindfulness of others.  These are just a few tips.  Matt, what are you sharing about belonging or belongingness?

[Matt Schlegel]

We have instinctual rapport-building processes that allow us to build trust with one another.  Many of these instinctual processes tend to drive us towards conformity.

Birds of a Feather Flock Together.  Go Along to Get Along.  These are just a couple of the sayings  that describe this human instinct.

An organization that strives towards making people feel they belong regardless of how they present (pause) may face headwinds in rapport-building amongst team members as they will have to consciously and deliberately explore our innate rapport-building instincts.

Robert Sapolsky in his book Behave describes the part of the brain – the insular cortex—that drives our in-group and out-group responses.  There are 3 main responses,

One is, “I care and think it’s great with distinctly-presenting people showing up;”

A second one is, “I care and don’t like outsiders;”

And a third response is, “I really don’t care one way or another.”

Organizations working towards building belongingness must raise awareness of these distinct responses and make accommodations for conversations that allow all employees to realize that mission of the organization is the one thing all have in common.  We all have differences, and we can appreciate that these differences are our strengths in helping us achieve our common mission.

Kimberly, what are you thinking about in terms of belongingness.

[Kimberly Layne]

Thanks Matt, yes, an organization can define its culture, and as a leader you are executing on that definition. Are you inviting your people to belong or are you asking them to fit in?

Fitting in or Belonging are two different cultures and Brene Brown states that belonging and fitting in are the opposite of each other.  Why?

Belonging is allowing and inviting your employees to show up as they truly are in their complete individuality and uniqueness in gender, ethnicity, education, and style. They have embraced and honored themselves and they have chosen to show up with full authenticity and vulnerability. Not pretending to be someone they are not.

Fitting in is asking your people to show up in a certain way, to meet certain criteria to “fit in.”  and therefore, meet the criteria to “belong.”  By trying to fit in they will have to betray or dishonor themselves.

True belonging doesn’t ask us to change who we are (or betray ourselves) but asks us to be who we are (and embrace ourselves).

As a leader, will you choose to create a culture of true diversity, equity inclusion, and belonging or just pretend that you are through fitting in criteria?

Filed Under: Diversity, Roaring 2020s

Coaching Call Podcast Discussing Our Early Inspirations

September 5, 2022 by Matt Schlegel Leave a Comment

Honored to be on the Coach Call Podcast.  Really enjoyed my conversation with expert coach and podcast host Sifu Rafael.  We discovered that we had much in common in our early childhood experiences and influences.

Check out the podcast on any platform. Here are a few:

Spotify:

S3 Ep#44 Matt Schlegel: Teamwork • Coaching Call (spotify.com)

Apple Podcast:

Coaching Call: S3 Ep#44 Matt Schlegel: Teamwork on Apple Podcasts

iHeart Radio:

Coaching Call | iHeart

 

Follow Coaching Call:

Facebook: facebook.com/coachingcall

Instagram: instagram.com/coachingcall

Email: maxfitness@optonline.net

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/maxfitness

Youtube: https://bit.ly/coachingcallYoutube to watch the full interview.

 

 

Filed Under: Leadership, Podcast

Lee Krevat Brings Energy to Climate Leadership

August 29, 2022 by Matt Schlegel Leave a Comment

Lee Krevat, CEO of Krevat Energy Innovations, has over three decades of experience working in energy and technology. Notably he served as Director and Founder of the Smart Grid organization at San Diego Gas & Electric, evangelizing grid modernization especially to support charging of electric vehicles.  He serves on numerous boards and has a great purview of where we are in the energy transition away from fossil fuels. Lee is also the host of the popular Climate Champions Podcast.

Learn more about Krevat Energy Innovations here: https://krevatenergyinnovations.com/

Check out the Climate Champions Podcast here: https://climatechampions.podbean.com/

Find Lee on LinkedIn here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/krevat/

#Leadership #Energy  #climatechange #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ

[Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Lee Krevat, who is a leader in the energy sector, where he’s evangelized the transformation of the electrical energy grid in order to accommodate the transition to electric vehicles. And now, for the conversation.

Matt Schlegel:

Lee Krevat joins me today for a conversation about leadership and climate. Lee has over three decades experience working in energy and technology. Notably, he served as director and founder of the Smart Grid organization at San Diego Gas & Electric, evangelizing grid modernization, especially to support charging of electric vehicles. He serves on a number of boards and has a great purview of where we are in the energy transition away from fossil fuels. Lee is also the host of the Climate Champions podcast. And I’m very grateful he had me on there for a conversation. And I’m equally grateful to have him here today.

Matt Schlegel:

Welcome, Lee.

Lee Krevat:

It’s great to be here. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Great. Well, it’s great to have you. I really enjoyed our conversation. I encourage everybody to check out your Climate Champions podcast, it’s really great. It’s a great podcast. I really appreciate the opportunity to share thoughts about the climate there.

Matt Schlegel:

And this came up in our conversation too, about how we’re feeling. So I was hoping that you could start off and share, with this audience, how you’re feeling now about the climate crisis?

Lee Krevat:

Well, it’s interesting you should ask how I’m feeling now, because certainly I’ve had a long, many year journey, many decade journey with regards to climate change and how I have felt. Right now, to be honest, I feel a mixture almost all the time. And it’s really based on what’s going on in the news lately or based on my latest podcast and who I interviewed and what they had to say.

Lee Krevat:

Sometimes I have people that are very abreast of the facts and they can speak about it very clearly, from a scientific perspective, on the modeling and what is going on with the weather impacts and other impacts. When they go into those details I do get very nervous. I do get scared again. Even though I’ve been through it so many times before, every time I think about the task ahead of the human race it does make me scared again. I don’t really get mad, because I think we’re all to blame. So there’s nobody to get mad at, really. It’s the way it is. And we have to do something about it.

Lee Krevat:

Other times I’m very optimistic, and very excited, very happy, because, first of all, I’ve interviewed now 120 people for the climatechampions.com podcast … I got a little plug in there-

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah, I know.

Lee Krevat:

… and it’s just the fact that there’s-

Matt Schlegel:

It’s a really great show. And yeah, please plug away.

Lee Krevat:

… just the fact that there are so many people that want to be on the show and that are out there to be on the show. I also did a call this morning, GreenTech Talks, a buddy of mine, Les Mood, on LinkedIn, hosts that. We had over 100 people on that. And just so many people that want to do something. Then as I interview people, there are so many things that they’re doing that will really help and gives us a chance.

Lee Krevat:

So every time I’m opened up to a new, fantastic technology … or sometimes it’s not a technology, just a process, a methodology, like you have … it gives me renewed hope. So I go in between a feeling of dread about what’s going to happen and a feeling that we can do something about it.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Well, I mean, that’s great. I think a lot of people in the climate space are having similar different feelings that they’re rolling through. And it’s really interesting how you bring up hope and, I guess, anxiety or some kind of fear that you’re feeling. And you’re going back and forth between those two.

Matt Schlegel:

Sometimes I’ve heard people say that they’re feeling sadness or grief, and sometimes I hear that people are frustrated or angry. So it’s really interesting how each of us does have a core that can, one, serve to wake us up, but also serve to energize us and move to action and give us hope. So, I mean, that’s fantastic.

Matt Schlegel:

So how are these feelings now influencing your current leadership and your actions?

Lee Krevat:

It’s interesting that you mentioned anger. I just want to address that.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah.

Lee Krevat:

For me, it’s hard to get angry about it, because I’ve been involved with so many aspects of the space. I understand that most of the people, even the people that are doing the bulk of the damage … I guess some of them are bad people, but for the most part … they have jobs, they’re trying to feed their families. And they 1,000 excuses. And it’s hard for them because they’ve been raised in a way that they appreciate money and getting promotions. It’s very difficult for them to take action against that, basically get fired or quit. It’s just a difficult thing.

Lee Krevat:

And I know that personally, because you asked: What am I doing about it, as a leader? And four years ago I left a very high paying job to be out on my own. I decided … I got this from another guy who was on my podcast, Marco Vangelisti his name was, I believe. And he said he developed a sense of enough. So I developed a sense of enough, and said, “Okay, I need to do something about this problem.” I was very lucky to be involved with Smart Grid and to be involved with Sempra Renewables, where I actually launched our distributed renewable energy campaign and efforts in that space. So I got to be involved with doing what I consider to be the right thing, to do something about the problem. I think the day it was announced that we were selling Sempra Renewables, which is where I worked, I decided that the company wasn’t for me. And that’s when I decided to leave and go out on my own.

Lee Krevat:

And what I do now … it’s funny, when I went out on my own initially, it was very easy to get distracted with consulting deals that weren’t really focused on climate change mitigation; which is the reason I left. So it took me about six months, maybe a year, to unwind any of those consulting agreements and really just focus on advising companies that are really trying to make a difference. And that’s what I do every day.

Lee Krevat:

And it’s interesting, I have a list of to-dos. And I do filter them and make sure I am doing this to help. I don’t want to be doing it to make money anymore. I’ve had that kind of a life. I just want to be part of the solution. And you talk about your numbers. And seven is a communicator. I do feel that that is something I can do. And that’s why I focus as much as I can on communicating, not only through a podcast but sitting on these advisory boards and boards of these companies. I introduce them to venture capital, I introduce them to each other. I find customers for them, if I can. I give them advice. Whatever I can do to help.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Yeah. So you’re bringing up a number of really fascinating points. One is how you set priorities. And then also you mentioned the … we had a conversation about Enneagram, and we’re thinking that maybe you’re an Enneagram type seven. Certainly, you’ve migrated to a role that is very aligned with being an Enneagram type seven. So I want to just explore both of those things a little bit.

Matt Schlegel:

So if you feel comfortable, I would love to hear how you establish your priorities in terms of where you want to focus your energy in your consulting practice?

Lee Krevat:

That’s a good question, because prioritization has never been a strong suit of mind. Even when I was pretty high up in management, I still found I wanted to say yes to everybody. And I feel like, for the most part, I’m still doing that. That’s why I have my little to-do list, and I put stars next to the things I just have to get done. And those priorities, some things are just urgent because they’re due today, like doing this discussion. We agreed to do it so I’m going to deliver on that.

Lee Krevat:

But I think number one for me is getting the word out wherever I can. I like doing content, I guess. So I’m attracted to that. So it’s easier for me to do that. The behind the scenes things are harder for me to do, like the administration work of that. So sometimes it takes me a lot longer to edit a podcast episode than actually record it initially, for example. And the other thing I really like to do, and I consider a top priority, is if any of the companies that I have any relationship with at all need me to help, then I put that at the top of the queue.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Well, it’s really interesting, and it’s a nice segue to Enneagram type seven. Because Enneagram type sevens love doing new, exciting stuff all the time. And opportunities to connect with people are some of the most exciting things for the sevens. So I can see how you prioritize those. And the thought of doing back office detailed grudge work is like, “Ugh, don’t want to do that.”

Lee Krevat:

But let me just say, I give tons of credit to people that do that. And I wish-

Matt Schlegel:

Exactly.

Lee Krevat:

And I’ve tried to get stronger at it. I used to think that I was very valuable as an employee because I had a lot of ideas, all the time a lot of ideas. But then I learned that ideas that aren’t done, that you don’t have the wherewithal to follow-up on and actually get them done, they don’t really count for much. So you have to be more well-rounded than that. You not only need the idea, but you have to have the drive to take it to full completion.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah. And sevens are great at … I call them the honeybees of the Enneagram, because they buzz around and they pick up ideas everywhere like pollen, and then bring it back and work with the hive to make honey. So it seems like you’re very good at that. And that’s why sevens will often partner with other people who compliment them on the things that they don’t like to do, so they can focus on the things they love to do. And that’s true for everybody, I think.

Lee Krevat:

I’ll give a plug to the Smart Grid team that I led back at San Diego Gas & Electric that you talked about, because my team was so awesome and balanced. We didn’t do an Enneagram test, so we don’t know, but each of them seemed to have such amazing skills. It was one of the best teams I’ve ever been on, and I’ve been on some great teams. But what I really liked is they let me go off and do what I needed to do, to think, to mix ideas together and to create. And they made real things happen on the back end. So without them, I was nothing.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It takes a team.

Matt Schlegel:

Hey, and I also just want to plug the importance of what you’re doing. Because type sevens are great communicators and they’re great at getting ideas out into the community. And that is so important for the climate movement. So I’m very appreciative of everything that you’re doing, and that very optimistic, hopeful view that you give us as you are helping us understand where we are. So thank you so much for that.

Lee Krevat:

Wow. You’re very welcome. And it is really my pleasure. It’s what I feel like I was born to do. It’s putting everything, my entire career, together, to finally do, I feel, what I was meant to do.

Matt Schlegel:

Oh, that is perfect. Perfect. Purpose combined with all of your talents and away you go. Right?

Lee Krevat:

Well, that’s why I do an improvised rap at the end of my interviews, like I did with you. Which I know floored you because you know I made it up right there [inaudible 00:13:42].

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. It was great.

Lee Krevat:

Without even pausing to think, pretty much. And that just combines another one of my passions. I try to put them all together.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes. Yeah. That is great.

Matt Schlegel:

So now, what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders, maybe young adults who are now at outset of their career and wanting to do something to address the climate crisis, and they’re having these feelings? And what advice would you give to anybody who’s starting to have strong feelings about the climate crisis?

Lee Krevat:

Well, for me, it took a long time in my career to get more than a single win, whatever you call it, a single bottom line win. I don’t know the proper term for it. But I was focused on promotion and money. And I got into whatever I did, whatever I did I saw new ideas, how to do it, and I enjoyed it. So it gave me personal satisfaction.

Lee Krevat:

It took me a while in my career to realize … I won’t get into it. I have a long story about it … but when I realized, “Wow, you can do more than make money and get promotions. You can actually help the world.” And once I realized that, boy, it’s hard not to do it because it’s important. So it was a journey for me to do it with more and more of my time, and worry less about the financial aspects of what I do.

Lee Krevat:

That being said, I think for a lot of people, they have to earn money. They don’t have enough yet. So I think it’s important that they find that balance. Make what you need to live and make sure that you’re satisfied with what you do. But if you can follow your passion and make a difference in the world, there’s nothing like that. Because then you don’t mind working, it never feels like work. It always feels like you’re doing what you should be doing in the world.

Lee Krevat:

And I’ll tell you, I have two daughters; both incredibly wonderful. Both became computer scientists, like myself. And both are trying to find a way, both of them, how do they do that in a way that helps the world? It isn’t enough that they’re just making a good living. I’m so proud of them both.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Yeah. That is great. And I really like your emphasis on the word, enough. We both are living in the United States, and oftentimes it’s a culture that glorifies money and glorifies profits. And we become inculturated into believing that, “Oh, that’s what we should be working on, is enriching ourselves.” And you’ve come to this realization that that’s not the end goal. There are other ways of living a life, where you have enough and that you can build into purpose with other activities that are broader than just pursuing money and that will help all of us, at the end of the day, create a more habitable environment and help sustain humanity. So I really just so appreciate that perspective that you have.

Lee Krevat:

But I really do understand, people need to earn a living. So everybody can’t just say, “I’m not doing my job.”

Lee Krevat:

And another thing that’s interesting is some people will say that I retired. I don’t even know what that word means, because as long as I have energy what’s the point of just playing golf? And I do know people that enjoy that, and that’s fine. But I feel like I’m here for a reason, so I don’t feel that I’ll retire while I can make a difference in the world.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Well, thank you so much, Lee. I just love all of these ideas that you’ve shared. I love that you’re on your journey of understanding your Enneagram type, and how that even plays into where your focus is and where you feel most impassioned to make commitments to help the planet and help humanity. I really applaud you for all the great work you’re doing and for your wonderful rap songs at the end of your podcasts. Those are brilliant.

Lee Krevat:

Thank you. Can I add one thing that we talked about on the podcast?

Matt Schlegel:

Of course.

Lee Krevat:

Which we just released today. And one thing that you mentioned, which I thought was brilliant, I really appreciated it, was you said that you believe that we can take action and we can overcome this. And you believe that what it takes … because I express some doubt that the whole world could ever get together and do anything. Because we haven’t done that. A company can barely figure out what they want to do and get everybody on the same page. Certainly, our country can’t figure that out. So how can the world? But you said that when you have injustice, deep injustice, and when you have … and I’m forgetting the other piece-

Matt Schlegel:

Existential threat.

Lee Krevat:

… an existential threat. So when you have injustice and a threat, that that is motivation to make change happen.

Lee Krevat:

And what’s really interesting is I found a counter to what I had said about the world not coming together. My wife and I saw a movie last night, I think it was called 13 Lives, about the Thai soccer team that got lost in the caves and got stranded in the caves for over two weeks. And in that movie … and I believe this really happened … thousands of people got together, and many of them from other countries. People just stopped caring about their own specific needs. People gave up a lot to go there and to risk their lives, by diving and going through these crazy caves and tunnels to rescue these children.

Lee Krevat:

And, to me, that’s an example of an injustice: children dying. Obviously, that’s a deep injustice. And an existential threat, maybe not to the world but to their lives. So the world did come together and everybody went to help. So I do think that you’re right. I think if you have those factors we can make a difference, the whole world could come together and make a difference.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. And it’s amazing, humanity’s ability to empathize. Because the people who went in to rescue them, they weren’t in that situation. But they had this empathetic response to their plight and it compelled them into action, to help. I think, as we move into more and more urgent crises related to the climate, I think more and more people are going to have these types of empathetic reactions and want to help. And why it’s so important for them to hear your voice, because you’ve already gone through that, you’ve already had those feelings. And now you’ve found this role for yourself that is very productive and helping get the word out about possibilities to solve the climate crisis.

Matt Schlegel:

So exactly, it’s going to help all of us to have these empathetic, emotional reactions, that bring us to the table in terms of solving the crisis.

Lee Krevat:

And you also said on my podcast to listen to your emotions and listen to your passions, and let your emotions drive you to follow your passions and help in the way that you can help and that you can make a difference. Because we’re all different numbers and we all have different ways. I might be a seven, but we need everybody in the game. Everybody has something to give.

Lee Krevat:

And in this movie divers dove, and other people handle the logistics, and other people diverted the water from continuing to fill the caves. So different people had different knowledge and different capabilities, and that’s how they contributed. So, again, you are right on.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Right? It’s going to take all of us and we all have something to contribute. Absolutely.

Matt Schlegel:

Well, thank you, Lee. And thanks again for the great conversations and for sharing your feelings and your emotional journey that brought you to where you are today in your climate leadership. So thanks again.

Lee Krevat:

You’re very welcome. And thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for listening. I really appreciate how Lee describes how he cycles between being nervous and scared about what the science is telling us and being hopeful and optimistic about the amazing people he meets who are working on climate, and the amazing solutions that are emerging.

Matt Schlegel:

Also, Lee highlights the sense of enough. He felt like he had had enough, and set out to focus on work that directly addresses the climate crisis. He has blended all his talents: his communication skills, his networking skills, his expertise in the energy sector, and of course his rapping skills, into a wonderful podcast, the Climate Champions podcast, where he can bring all of those talents together and get the message out about the great things that are happening to address the climate crisis.

Matt Schlegel:

So if you found this helpful, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to get notifications of future episodes. Thanks again for listening.

 

Filed Under: Climate Crisis, Leadership

The Enneagram Explains Empathy versus Sympathy

August 15, 2022 by Matt Schlegel Leave a Comment

Matt Schlegel presents a model – The Empathy-Sympathy Matrix – that shows the degree to which each Enneagram type is empathetic or sympathetic. The model builds on an understanding of Dr. David Daniel’s Harmony Triads and Karen Horner’s Temperament Triads putting these two sets of triads into a single framework that explains empathy and sympathy.  Matt also discusses the Harmonic Triads (not to be confused with the Harmony Triads) and their unique relationship to empathy and sympathy.

Here’s a  link to the slides: https://evolutionaryteams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2022-08-08-sympathy-versus-empathy.pdf

#Empathy #Sympathy #Enneagram #Emotional Intelligence #EQ

[Video Transcript]

Thanks for tuning in. Today, I want to share a model that I’ve been working on, which I’m using the Enneagram as a framework to understand empathy and sympathy and the degree to which each Enneagram type feels empathy or sympathy. And this came about in a conversation with my son, and we were talking about how we were processing certain feelings, and it occurred to me that I really understood the feelings, but I wasn’t actually feeling them myself, while he said he was actually feeling them, and that precipitated an epiphany of sorts that led me to develop this model, so many thanks to my son for that conversation.

So first of all, let’s just start off with some definitions. These are the definitions that I’m using for empathy and sympathy. First of all, empathy is “I feel what you’re feeling.” So if you’re in a situation where you’re with somebody and they are somehow feeling a feeling, you start to empathetically have that same feeling, and so that’s what I’m using for empathy, is that you actually feel what the other person is feeling. And then sympathy is more about knowledge and that you care about what they’re feeling. Now, you may know intellectually what they’re feeling, if it’s anger or sadness, because you’ve felt it too so you know what that feeling is, it’s just that you may not be actually feeling it when they’re feeling it, but you know what it is and you care, and the more you care, the more sympathetic you are. So those are the two definitions that I’m working with here.

So when we look at the empathy part, I found that there is a relationship with empathy and the Harmony Triads. So the Harmony Triads are the two, five, the eight, the one, four and seven, and the three, six, nine. In my book, Teamwork 9.0, I call these the Work Team Triads, because these are the triads that seem to come together naturally, organically, and form work teams. Everybody gets along, everybody has affinity for each other, and everybody complements each other in their work, and so that’s why I refer to them as the Work Team Triads, but here I’ll fall back and rely on the more traditional Enneagram description, which is the Harmony Triads.

And what I am finding is that it’s the two, five, and eight, the Relationist Triad is the most empathetic, so that group is most in tune with how others are feeling. Now, clearly the two is a pretty obvious one. We all know the two, the Helper, is the one who is emotionally connected with you and feels what you’re feeling. And the eight is also highly empathetic, and then the five, and this is one that might be a little bit… Take a little bit more understanding, is that because the fives don’t emote that much, that doesn’t mean that they’re not feeling what other people are feeling, and in fact, they may be feeling it so intensely, it’s one of the reasons why they kind of are quiet and shut down, because they don’t want to reveal that they are feeling so intensely. So that’s the two, five, and the eight.

And there’s three degrees, so I’m putting these into three degrees of empathy. So the highest degree would be the two, five, eight, the second-highest degree would be what the Harmony Triads call the Idealist Triad, and that’s the one, four, and the seven. And in each one of these, they all will feel empathy, just not to the extent to which the most empathetic, the Relationist Triad, will feel it.

And then the least empathetic is the triad that is called the Pragmatist Triad, and that’s the three, the six, and the nine, and it’s one that… The three is pretty obvious, because the three suppresses emotions, and so it’s not really a surprise that you would find this, the three in the least empathetic category. The six, so I’m a type six, and this one was part of my epiphany, it’s like, “Now I get it. I’m not feeling what others are feeling, I just know what they’re feeling” and we’ll get to that more later.

And then the nine is also in this group where they are not necessarily feeling, but they’re… They do want to make sure that there’s no conflict, but they’re not feeling the same emotions as the other people in the environment, which allows them to kind of confront people to mitigate any conflict in the environment without getting emotionally wrapped up in it. So that’s what’s going on with those, so now you see that we have this kind of pecking order in empathy that is described by the Harmony Triads.

So now what about sympathy? And so for sympathy, we can turn to the Temperament Triads, or the Hornevian Triads, and what we find here is the most sympathetic are the one, the two, and the six, and again, we see the two in there. Again, we know how intense the twos process emotions, and they care so much that they want to help, and so that’s why they are kind of the most sympathetic and the most empathetic, and now we also see in that… In the Temperament Triads, it’s called the Compliant Triad, where you have the one, the two, and the six, and it’s in this triad where you’re feeling the most sympathy, and so you’re working to comply with whatever is going on in this situation in order to… Because you’re so sympathetic.

And as a six, I feel like I really understand what people are going through, and so I want to be there for them, and that is my strong sense of sympathy. And ones also have that, especially when there’s some kind of injustice involved, then they become very sympathetic to the situation. Then the mid-level sympathy are the Withdrawing Triad, which is the four, the five, and the nine, and then the least sympathetic would be the Assertive Triad, which is the three, the seven, and the eight. And so again you see the three in that least sympathetic, so it’s really the polar opposite of the two, where the two is the most sympathetic and the most empathetic, and then the three, suppressing emotions, ends up being the least sympathetic and the least empathetic in this framework.

And you also have the seven and eight in there as well, both are very positive, optimistic, looking forward and somewhat focused on creating a future. All of these are creating a future, and so they’re not… Sympathy is almost dwelling a little bit in the past, or even in the present, and they’re trying to create a new future, so they don’t… So they minimize the sympathy, that’s my take on it.

So now when you put all of these together in a matrix, so this might be the Empathy-Sympathy Matrix, where you have the more empathetic, the two, the five, and the eight, the least empathetic, the three, six, and the nine, and the one, four, and seven in the middle, and then in that same way, you can structure the sympathetic folks from the three, seven, eight to the least, then the four, five, seven in the middle, and the one, two, six as the most sympathetic. And there’s some really interesting things that come out of this once you understand each perspective, each Enneagram type’s perspective on empathy and sympathy, and then how that plays into our interpersonal dynamics and conversations and motivations.

And so I’ve been thinking about what each type might say about their relationship with empathy and sympathy, and I’ve actually taken a lot of these sentences just from my conversations with different Enneagram types. And so the one, they might say, “I get a sense for what you’re feeling and I care, especially if there’s an injustice,” so that would fall exactly on that point in the matrix. The two, of course, is “I deeply feel what you’re feeling, and I really care.” The three, “I’m not so sure what you’re feeling, and I’m not really sure that it’s that important,” so that might be what a three would say.

Four is smack dab in the middle of the matrix, and so they’re the most balanced on empathy and sympathy, and so they could say, “I feel what you’re feeling and I care about what you’re feeling,” and they would have that centered perspective. The five now being up at the most empathetic would say, “I strongly feel what you’re feeling, and sure, I care,” without revealing too much. The six, and so this is me, is like, “I really care about what you’re feeling, but I’m not sure that I feel it,” so that might be what a six would say.

And then a seven would say, “I sense your feelings, but I’m having… I think having fun is more important,” right? So not a very sympathetic response. The eight is, “I know exactly what you’re feeling,” and I’ve heard eights say this, “I know exactly what you’re feeling, and I really don’t care.” So that seems to be the eight’s stance on this, and that’s how they fall in the most empathetic, but the least sympathetic. And then the nine is, “I’m not sure what you’re feeling, and I care, especially if those feelings might lead to a conflict,” right? So there’s like a caveat on their caring, which kind of puts them in the middle of the sympathy. So those are some examples of how you might interpret what each one of the Enneagram types would say based on their position in the Empathy-Sympathy Matrix.

And now, just some other really interesting ideas that come out of this is that which combinations of people have all aspects of empathy and sympathy covered? And so one is the main triads, the Gut Triad, the Feeling Triad, and the Heart Triad. If you go through, you’ll see that all degrees of empathy and sympathy are represented in those triads, okay? And then there’s another set of triads that also have all points, all degrees of empathy and sympathy represented, and these are called the Harmonic Triads, and they are the two, seven, and nine, which is the Positive Outlook Triad, the one, three, five, the Competent Triad, and the four, six, eight, the Emotionally Reactive Triad.

These are really interesting triads because not only do they represent all perspectives of sympathy and empathy, but they also, if you look back to my work in Teamwork 9.0 on the chapter Two Balanced Brains, where I talk about how the Harmony Triads have all perspectives of amygdala dominance and prefrontal cortex dominance covered, well, the Harmonic Triads, and don’t confuse Harmony Triads with Harmonic Triads, the Harmonic Triads are also… They have all amygdala and prefrontal cortex dominances covered as well, so these Harmonic Triads are really special in that way, is that they have so much balance in terms of neural diversity, for lack of a better word, just diversity in the way we’re processing and using the different dominances and parts of our brain to process things, so there’s really a great relationship with the Harmonic Triads and this Empathy-Sympathy Matrix. So that’s all for now, I was just very excited about this and wanted to share it with you, and I look forward to talking more about this in the future. Thanks.

 

Filed Under: Enneagram

  • « Go to Previous Page
  • Go to page 1
  • Go to page 2
  • Go to page 3
  • Go to page 4
  • Interim pages omitted …
  • Go to page 39
  • Go to Next Page »

Primary Sidebar

Your Number Makes a Difference™

Make your life even better, personally and professionally, by knowing your Enneagram type.
Reveal Your Number with a Free Enneagram Questionnaire »

Follow Matt

  • rss
  • twitter

Get Posts Direct to Your Inbox!

Solve Your Teamwork Dilemmas With Matt’s New Book

View Book Reviews

Latest Posts

  • How Group Goals Can Emerge from Individual Goals
  • How to Use the Enneagram to Create Marketing Narratives
  • Are you Maintaining Healthy Habits and Resiliency in the Roaring 2020s?
  • Corinna Bellizzi interviews Matt Schlegel on the Care More Be Better Podcast
  • Maya Steinberg — Enneagram Type 9 brings a Positive Outlook to Climate Leadership

Categories

Recent Comments

  • Matt Schlegel on I am 2% Neanderthal
  • Jill on I am 2% Neanderthal
  • Matt Schlegel on FAQ: Enneagram — Team Effectiveness
  • Matt Schlegel on How to Lead a Board of Directors Change Management Task Force
  • LBF on How to Lead a Board of Directors Change Management Task Force

Footer

Tweets by EvoTeamMatt

Matt Schlegel

Send Matt a Message »
+1 (650) 924-8923

  • Home
  • Services
  • Success Stories
  • FAQ
  • Blog
  • Contact
  • This Book’s For You
Solve Your Teamwork Dilemmas
With Matt’s New Book

© 2023 Schlegel Consulting · Evolutionary Team Effectiveness · +1 (650) 924-8923 · Email Matt
Creative Consulting by JMF · Web Design by Sarah Ruediger · Sitemap

Your Number Makes a Difference.™ Reveal Your Number with a Free Enneagram Questionnaire »