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Matt Schlegel

How to Use the Enneagram to Create Marketing Narratives

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Matt Schlegel presents to an SBA T.H.R.I.V.E group of emerging leaders on how to use the Enneagram to create marketing narratives.  Matt shares how to create a narrative for each Enneagram type, and then works with two leaders in the group to create specific narratives, one to market to Enneagram Type 4 clientele and the other to market to Enneagram Type 6 customers.

#leadership #Enneagram #marketing

[Video Transcript]

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Let me welcome Matt to the SBA Thrive group for entrepreneurship and all the CEOs of the group. Matt is going to talk to us about the nine market narratives for using the Enneagram to market your business. Is that correct? Right. Yeah, I’m pretty sure.

So anyway, I’m just going to introduce Matt Schlegel. I’ve known him for quite a while. I’m learning a lot through him through the Enneagram. He’s teaching me a lot, but anyway. So Matt, why don’t you just go ahead and get started. As the other people want to come in, I’ll just add them.

Matt Schlegel:

Sounds great. Thank you, Mari-Lyn for having me speak today. I’m delighted to be here. I appreciate the interest in your group for this powerful tool that I use called the Enneagram. This is a follow-up session to a previous session where we just talked about an overview of what the Enneagram is and how it can be used as a personality dynamic system to better understand yourself, better understand others on your team, better understand the interpersonal dynamics that occur. The Enneagram is a wonderful tool for that.

But, it can be used for so much more. One of the things that we’ll talk about today is how to construct a marketing narrative that will tune to specific Enneagram types. If you are knowledgeable about the type of person that you are marketing to, then you can craft a message that is specifically tuned for their Enneagram type that will really resonate with them, so it really becomes a very powerful communication tool as well. Each Enneagram type has specific things that they’re listening for and specific things that they’re motivated to do. In as much as we can craft a narrative designed to that, then it really makes a difference.

I will just jump ahead. Just a little bit about me. I have been using the Enneagram now for over 20 years. I started using it in the way that most people do with friends and family, found that it was very powerful. I introduced it to my team at work, and it proved to be a very effective communication tool there. Then, I asked this question, “Why are the Enneagram types numbers? Why not colors or letters or…” It turns out there is a reason why they are numbers. It’s because it describes the order of a process, and it turns out it’s the exact order… Those Enneagram dynamics are exactly in the order that they appear in human problem-solving, so I started using the Enneagram as a problem-solving system, and it works amazingly well as that as well.

It’s not a well known aspect of the Enneagram, which is why I ended up writing a book about that particular aspect, how to use the Enneagram as a problem-solving tool with your teams. This is my book, Is Teamwork 9.0. It’s available on Amazon. I encourage people who want to explore that side of the Enneagram to check it out.

Today we’re going to look at yet another aspect of the Enneagram as we dive into these lines that we see inside of the Enneagram. When we look about problem-solving in general, you can see it’s one through nine. But if you start with any specific point, say… Let’s start with seven. You can see that there’s these blue lines inside of the Enneagram that trace from seven to five to eight to two to four to one, and then back to seven. At an individual level, not necessarily as a team level, but as an individual level, that tends to be a trajectory that we will take as we work through individual problem-solving and as we construct narratives from our specific point of view.

That’s really what we’re going to talk about today, is how to construct a narrative out of these lines in the center. This is very good if you, say, understand that I’m going to be speaking to a group of sevens or I’m going to be speaking to a group of threes. In the broadest sense, if you don’t know what your target demographic looks like, then you probably want to stick with the one through nine narrative around the circle. But if you’re going to be marketing to a seven, then there is a better way to do it that will really resonate with the seven.

As you become familiar with the Enneagram, you will start to see that certain Enneagram types are drawn to certain roles. For instance, I find that at companies oftentimes a chief financial officer tends… There tend to be a lot of type ones in that role. Or if you’re a financial controller at a company, there tends to be a lot of type sixes and on, and on, and on. There’s specific types that are drawn to certain roles. If you know, “Hey, I’m marketing to CFOs at companies. I want to craft a narrative around that type one path of those lines in the middle,” so that’s kind of what the main idea is that we’re trying to do here.

Let’s start with the seven. If you look at those lines, it will start with the seven, then it will go to the five, then the eight, the two, the four, one, and back to seven. Now, we’ve talked about that seven personality dynamic. One of the main things that the seven wants is to keep things fun, and positive, and light. They tend to be friendly, talkative, charming. That’s the starting point. In crafting your narrative, you want to start with something that is fun and positive because that will catch their attention.

Then, the next step in that will be to go to the five. Sevens love information. They love to have their brains tickled, so you want to provide them with information. That’s in that Enneagram type five dynamic. Then, going from there, you want to show them how you can use this information to take action. That’s the type eight. Then, you want to show how that action that you’re taking is going to be very helpful, and that’s the type two dynamic. Then, you want to know from there how that helpfulness will let them stand out as being special or unique. That’s that type four dynamic. Then, it goes back to the type one where sevens really resonate with principles. So you can bring it back to the principle of why you did all of that, so you ground it in principles. That’s the type one dynamic. Then you bring it back to, “Wasn’t that fun? And we had so much fun doing it.”

You can see how just following those lines around you can create and craft a story that will really resonate with that type seven personality. Does that make sense, Mari-Lyn, when I describe it that way?

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Mm-hmm.

Daniel:

Yes. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Awesome. Awesome. In this slide here, we deconstruct each one of those elements from that type seven point of view, so you’ll be able to refer back to this slide, but it’s essentially what I just described.

Then, as you move around, each one of these types has a different starting point. Now, the order when you’re looking at the blue lines connecting the seven, the five, the eight, the one, the four, two, it follows in the order of the direction of the arrows. It’s just the starting point is different for each type. When you start with the five, you want to lead with, “I’m going to provide you with lots of information.” Fives love that information. Then, you start there and then you follow it around through the eight, the two, the four, the one, the seven, and then back to the five. That is the way you craft a story with the fives.

Now, fives, engineers. They tend to be researchers. Anybody in academia will kind of fall into this five category. Whether they’re a type five or not, it’s kind of the world that they live in, researchers, that type of area. If you’re marketing to folks in that area, you want to use a five strategy.

Then, let’s go to the next, so eight. The eight strategy is starting with action. When you’re marketing to a type eight… And a lot of CEOs are type eights, very action oriented. You want to lead with, “We’re going to get stuff done here. We’re going to take action,” and then you go through the remaining steps of, “It will be very helpful. It will make you stand out. It’s really based in principles. It will be fun. It will be informative. And we’re going to get a lot done.” That’s how you build the narrative with the eight. But just remember to start with action with them.

With the two, this is starting with caring about other people and that being helpful. That’s how you resonate with the two, is you start off with appreciation, and kindness, and giving, and caring. Now, Mari-Lyn, I know you’re a type two, and so I know that this really would resonate with you. What do you think of this approach for the type two?

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close. But as you’re talking, too, I see myself in other roles, in other numbers, too, so [inaudible 00:15:18]. But, that’s true.

Matt Schlegel:

That’s exactly what this speaks to. This is one of the reasons why I love the Enneagram, is because we do move through all these dynamics in our… As we move through our lives and we move through our personal problem-solving, we are all cycling through these. That’s why crafting a narrative in this way will just really speak to each Enneagram type, and knowing that starting point is really helpful.

For twos, we know if you’re marketing to caregivers, lot of twos in caregiving. Actually, lots of different service roles, fire firefighters, police, the military, a lot of twos are drawn to those types of service roles. So when you’re marketing to an organization that is really based in providing services to their customers or their community, you can use this two narrative because it will really speak to them.

All right. So, same thing. I think you get the idea with the four. You want to start off with the uniqueness and the emotional impact that you’ll have. Then with the one, I mentioned before, a lot of CFOs in the one category, so you want to start off with precision, and accuracy, and competency, and principles. These are things that resonate with type ones, like it will resonate with CFOs because that’s kind of their world.

That kind of gives you a way of crafting messages for all of the Enneagram types that are connected by these blue lines, because you can see they’re all interconnected. But now let’s go over to the red lines. This is the triangle, the three, the six, and the nine. The same idea will happen here. When you’re going to start with the three, you want to start off with a success narrative. Threes are drawn to success. They want success, so they want to see how whatever you’re presenting is going to be successful. So you lead there, and then you move to the six dynamic, which is predictable. You want to have something that’s essentially a system for continuous success.

Then, after that, you move to the nine dynamic and show how this success will end up creating harmony within the community that the three is working with so that success will reflect well on them. You don’t want conflict or discord where… The three would be very sensitive to things not going well, so you want to show how whatever you’re presenting is going to be very harmonious. Then you come back to that success. You can see how if you are a three, these are the points that are going to be really important to the three, which is why it makes it such a powerful narrative when you’re marketing to threes. All right?

Now you get to the six. Again, we’re just now sticking to that triangle in the middle, and we’re… Sixes are looking for consistency, for low risk. They want it well thought out, all these things, so with an eye towards predictability. You lead with that, and then you show how the community will embrace that system, that predictableness, and allow things to continue on in a predictable, non-chaotic way. Then you show how all of this leads to successful outcomes. Then, you finally draw back to that predictableness. This is the narrative that would work really well with the six.

Then, the nine is leading with the harmoniousness. You remember nines, they want to minimize conflict in the community, and they want to make sure that everybody’s perspectives are taken into account. You lead with that part of your narrative of how everybody is going to feel really good about this solution, and then you go to the success. It will lead to success, it will be predictable, and it’s very harmonious. Everybody will love it. That’s the narrative that you want to construct for the type nine.

That gives you a brief overview of how to think about narratives for each one of the Enneagram types. Then again, if you don’t know, or it’s early on, or you’re working with somebody new that you haven’t met and you don’t know their Enneagram type, then you can fall back on the generalized form of the narrative, which is to simply follow the numbers from one to nine. You can use essentially a problem-solving narrative, a generalized problem-solving narrative when you’re constructing that because everybody will resonate with that. You start off with the problem and the goal. You show what stakeholders are impacted and who will care about that problem and that goal. You’ll want to show all the great ideas for success, so that’s step three. You want to show how you’ve taken into account any emotional feedback from those ideas and how you’ve vetted the most positive ideas with the community.

Now you move over to five, which is where you analyze the ideas, so you want to show how the idea that you’re presenting has been validated and will be effective. You move then to six, and you want to show how you have a plan in place to implement the idea. Then, essentially, in a marketing narrative, you’re working on steps one through six, and then your action is the seven. You’re promoting this plan to get something done, and you want to get your buy-off from your clients or customers, and then you want to act on the plan, and that’s step eight. Then, you want to make sure that the solution was effective for your customer or clients, and that’s nine. You could see how you can essentially follow this generic marketing narrative one through nine just around the circle. Those are the different ways to construct a marketing narrative using the Enneagram just really, really briefly. I hope you enjoyed that, and love to hear your thoughts on it.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Thank you. Actually, I think after your presentation, I actually learned a little bit more about the other numbers. It was like, “Oh, okay.” That was very good. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

You’re very welcome.

Daniel:

When you’re engaging in this process, what’s the timeline between one through nine? How much time are you putting into it?

Matt Schlegel:

It really depends on the situation. In the case where you are presenting to a customer or a client or a prospective client, you can construct this narrative and lay it out in 30 minutes. That means you’ll have had to do all of that work beforehand to validate the ideas and all that. But when you’re laying it out, you can just lay it out very sequentially. If you’re actually working with teams to solve a problem, that’s a different thing. Does that answer your question? Do you want to talk about team problem-solving or just using it as a marketing narrative?

Daniel:

No, the marketing narrative, I mean, that’s really what I’m keying off of, and that makes sense. I appreciate the clarity. Thank you.

Katie:

Thank you so much for that information. I own a dance studio, and this week I wanted to roll out a couple key things for… Not necessarily Black Friday special, but it is a special. I wanted to target people who had taken first lessons but never really continued, maybe because of price, because we are pretty pricey, or those people who had taken four lessons, which is the first layer, and never really continued. When you talked about doing a marketing narrative that covers all across, that was super helpful.

In a sense of timeline, most of the marketing tactics are either email. Some of them are even texts. This is the first time I’m going to go through texts. I have to really shorten that into, I don’t know, four sentences with a visual. Anyways, that was super helpful to me. If you have any other tidbits on specials that’s happening, especially for the holidays, to just incentivize people to continue or purchase, that would be great.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Well, I love that because I think that you probably have a sense of the type. How old? Are these junior high school level students or high school students, adults?

Katie:

Oh, these are adults.

Matt Schlegel:

They’re adults.

Katie:

Yeah, these are adults.

Matt Schlegel:

You might have a sense for the types of people who are coming to your class, are they mostly sevens or are they… I mean, that would probably be one group that you could construct the marketing narrative to. I would imagine that there might be some fours in there as well, just people who are very artistic and expressive and want to use different forms of emotional communication. You might have some fours in there as well. Do you have any sense of the types of Enneagram types that are your clients?

Katie:

Absolutely fours, people who appreciate music and connecting in a different sense, people who are… As of right now, I think most of the people who didn’t purchase maybe are a little bit more money… or budget focus. That’s why the incentives are there, like sweeter deal to start dancing, just so that they can try. Because sometimes it’s, unfortunately, you have to try it for at least… Not just four lessons just to get it in and really fall in love with it because you can only feel a progress over a little bit longer period of time. You do get a little bit of progress in a sense of one month, but imagine if they were there for three months or six months. They would feel a lot more progress, and they could see fuller the investment if they’re very short term like that thinking.

They want things quick and easy, right away. But if they could see just a little bit longer to be part of the community, to improve a little bit longer, longer sense of time, I think they would have a better idea and maybe be more lifelong students. That’s really my goal. I don’t want 100%. Maybe 80% lifelong students. No matter what, that dancing… Ballroom dancing is what I do.

Matt Schlegel:

Oh, okay.

Katie:

Ballroom dancing and partner dancing is going to be a part of their lives in a positive way. It just takes a little bit of time, like learning a language. You learn a language for, I don’t know, four lessons, and it doesn’t really impact you as much as you would in a consistent basis. It just takes a little bit of investment, and time, and money.

Matt Schlegel:

Let’s imagine that we’re marketing to a four or a group of fours. Some things about the fours that you’ll want to know are that they really want to be able to express themselves in emotionally impactful ways. That would be where you’d want to lead, is, “We’re going to give you the tools and the platform to be able to fully express this very beautiful and emotionally impactful dance.”

Then you might want to say, “We don’t want…” Now we move to one with the principles. “We don’t want cost to be a barrier to you having fun with this amazing form of dance, and so we want to give you…” Now I’m moving to five. “We want you to be able to have access to all the resources that we have that will help you achieve this,” and then you’re moving to eight, “and then be able to dance and fully express yourself.” That’s the action. “Then imagine as you grow how helpful that will be to your partner, and you’ll be helping each other.” That’s the two. Then you get back to four. “Then you and your partner will be able to create something beautiful and unique together.”

Katie:

I love that. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Does that make sense?

Katie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Schlegel:

When you construct it that way that, you’re just following the way the four naturally thinks, and that story will like, “Oh, yeah. I want to do that.”

Katie:

That’s great. Super helpful. Thank you.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Hey, Kate. I don’t know about Matt, the promoter, would they be a customer too or not?

Matt Schlegel:

I think you’re talking about the seven.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Yeah.

Matt Schlegel:

I think you find sevens in any social community. Sevens are very social. They like being in community. The nice thing about the four narrative is that it does overlap with the seven narrative. It’s just the sevens will be leading with the fun as opposed to that uniqueness of their personal creative emotional expression. The fun is more important than the emotional expression. For the four, the emotional expression is more important. But you can see the narratives overlap, so the sevens can be drawn into that as well.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Cool. Daniel, did you have any questions far as marketing or…

Daniel:

No. Matt was able to answer the questions I had. I’m going to be working with this in our marketing department and see where we go from there. But if I have something else, I’ll reach out directly. Thank you.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Great.

Matt Schlegel:

Perfect. What kind of folks do you tend to market to, Daniel?

Daniel:

We run private security consulting firm, so we’re working with larger industries, production, and manufacturing. We do colleges and universities. We work with hoteliers, car dealerships, work with municipalities, and small government.

Matt Schlegel:

Nice. For that type of business, you are likely to be marketing to the type sixes for the most part. Because you can see one of the things that the six likes is to minimize risk. Essentially, that’s what you’re doing, You’re a risk minimization firm.

Daniel:

Absolutely.

Matt Schlegel:

You want to build, I would say, a narrative around you’re going to provide predictability, you’re going to create a harmonious environment for everybody that is conflict-free because you’re there to make sure there’s not conflict. You’re going to allow your customers to maximize their success, and you are going to just be that predictable service in the background that is making sure that they can achieve their success.

Daniel:

Matt, and I think you’re spot on, especially with the predictability part. What our clients love is knowing we’re there and not needing to talk to us. They don’t want to be bothered. If they know we’re there and we’re on the job, I mean, that’s a huge selling point for us. No, I think you’re spot on, man. This is good stuff.

Matt Schlegel:

Awesome. Awesome. I mean, it’s pretty remarkable once you know what you’re targeting how you can distill down that message that will really hit all of the main points.

Daniel:

I love it.

Matt Schlegel:

Well, great. I’m glad that I was able to share this and hopefully offer some tidbits of advice that will help you achieve your successes.

Daniel:

Matt, we can get ahold of you on LinkedIn?

Matt Schlegel:

Absolutely. I’m on LinkedIn. I’ll have my contact information on these slides. I’m happy to share those as well.

Daniel:

That’d be great.

Katie:

Thank you.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Hey, you’re welcome, guys. Well, thank you so much, Matt, for coming back on and going through your presentation. I certainly really enjoyed it. I learned a lot, too, but anyway.

Matt Schlegel:

I really appreciate the opportunity, Mari-Lyn. It’s always a pleasure.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Hey, you’re welcome.

Daniel:

Happy holidays, sir.

Matt Schlegel:

Yep. Happy holidays.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Happy holidays, everybody. In that ending, we’ll just maybe end the call, unless you have something else you’d like to say, Matt.

Matt Schlegel:

No. Again, it’s just been a real pleasure. I think we all can learn so much from the Enneagram and the different aspects of how you use it. It’s one of those tools that the deeper you go, the more you learn.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Yes.

Matt Schlegel:

I encourage people to explore it, and play with it, and learn, and grow with it.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Are you still doing your community Enneagram groups or-

Matt Schlegel:

I do. I have a monthly group that meets. We discuss different topics related to the Enneagram. Well, it’s not just beginning Enneagram. Most of the people who come to the program are very familiar with the Enneagram. We come up with these different applications, just like the one we went over today, how to apply the Enneagram to marketing. The one that we did this last month after the election was how does the Enneagram relate to politics. That was a very lively discussion.

We’re going to take a break in December, but we’re going to come back in January, and we’re going to talk about empathy and sympathy. Each Enneagram type has a different take on empathy and sympathy. I’ve come up with a model that goes over the different empathy and sympathy levels of each Enneagram type and put that into a framework that’s easy to understand. That, I think, will be really helpful.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Especially for a lot of workplaces or people that need the extra boost or how to cope.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes, yes. Type twos, I’ll say right now, Mari-Lyn, type twos are the most empathetic and the most sympathetic.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Yes. Yeah.

Matt Schlegel:

You’re firing on all cylinders there.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Yeah, yeah. Well, certainly for the type of work I’m doing right now, certainly need it.

Matt Schlegel:

Exactly. That’s why you’re drawn to the work that you do.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Great. Thank you, everybody, for showing up today. You will be able to get a recording of this call, because I did record it. I’ll send you out the links. Okay, everybody. Have a great day. I guess we’ll see you soon. Happy [inaudible 00:40:54].

Matt Schlegel:

See you guys soon. Thank you.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Have a great-

Katie:

Thanks so much.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

… happy Thanksgiving.

Matt Schlegel:

Thank you.

Mari-Lyn Harris:

Bye-bye.

 

 

 

Are you Maintaining Healthy Habits and Resiliency in the Roaring 2020s?

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Life continues to throw us curve balls. How are you reacting to unforeseen challenges.  In this episode, authors Kimberly Layne, Twiana Armstrong and I share our thoughts and experiences about how we are maintaining healthy habits to create a wellness baseline that gives us resiliency while navigating challenging times.

 

Find Kimberly and Twiana here:

Kimberly Layne: https://www.kimberly-layne.com/

Twiana Armstrong: https://linkedin.com/in/twianaarmstrong

#leadership #wellness #habits #health #Roaring20s #Roaring2020s

 

[Video Transcript]

[Twiana Armstrong]

Leaders as you strategize about finishing the year strong, take stock, what successes are YOU checking off your personal leaderboard? Your organization relies on you to show up at your best, physically and mentally. Recent studies recommend parents include mental health exams in their children’s health checkups; examinations that check for anxiety in kids of elementary school age and examinations that check for depression in teenagers.  When you stop and reflect on these recommendations, adults should include mental health exams in their checkups, as well.  We can all agree that our lives are jam packed, each day brings experiences that we may or may not control. Your personal leaderboard must list key performance indexes, KPIs, that promote habits and behaviors that focus on you taking care of yourself. As you take stock, are you performing at your peak, physically and mentally? Your KPIs should indicate daily, weekly and monthly healthy behaviors that you consistently perform and consistently track. Take advantage of your organization’s wellness perks and benefits, regularly schedule vacations and retreats to refuel and see your medical expert for health and wellness checkups.  These KPIs keeps you performing at your best!

 

[Matt Schlegel]

Thanks, Twiana.

It’s so important to create habits that allow you to maintain good physical and mental health.

I really I try to do that. I try to eat well; I try to get regular exercise; I try to make sure that I get eight hours of sleep.

But sometimes life just throws things at you that disrupt your patterns, and your resiliency in those times depends on your base, where you’re starting from. That’s why it’s so important to make the investment in yourself to establish that healthy base while  you’re well.  When you start from a good base, you’ll be better able to navigate through challenging times.

And I just went through one of those challenging times with my mom’s health, where all of my routines ended up being disrupted. I had to spend time over at her place and then sometimes at the hospital. My eating habits were disrupted, as well as my exercise habits, and my sleep habits; everything got disrupted, and I could feel my ability to maintain composure and keep my anxiety levels down start to fade as that went on for what ended up being around two and a half weeks.

It really tested me, and I can’t imagine how I would have managed if I were already in a stressed state going into that.

Thankfully I was at a good starting point, and thankfully she’s now recovered. Since then I’ve been able to resume my normal patterns, and now I’m starting to feel much better myself.

You don’t know when something disruptive is going to come at you. It seems like disruptions are becoming more and more frequent all the time.  That raises the stakes for maintaining a healthy baseline when you can.

Kimberly, what are your thoughts?

 

[Kimberly Layne]

Matt and Twiana, thank you for sharing your insights into self-care, especially amidst change.  Very often when life happens, we abandon self-care.  I like to look at change as a test in self-care.  In essence it is teaching us to honor our core foundations of wellness in order to best get through it.

I recently read a book by Matt Kahn who is considered as much as a spiritual influencer as the Dalai Lama and Eckhart Tolle.

In his book, the universe always has a plan, he discusses that change, and adversity, is really an opportunity.  Very often when we have change in our life, or when ‘Life Happens” such as an elderly parent now requiring our presence and extra care,  our company goes through a reorg and we are no longer employed, or we find ourselves in the midst of a pandemic and an isolated lockdown, we  assume this kind of outcome as disappointing, an inconvenience and even a set back to our life.

Matt on the contrary encourages us to realize and know that change will always leave us in a better state than before the change. We may feel at first the loss of our job, or a divorce is excruciatingly devastating, but very often years later we realize it was the best thing that happened to us.  Realizing that there is a gift we cannot see in the midst of the pain, fear, and inconvenience can permit us to not abandon our habits of self-care, but to actually reach for those moments of self-care, knowing the outcome will be fine and we will be eventually too.

I will even take it a step further.  when so called “Life” takes over, we should view the challenge by (1) accepting and knowing it is a gift unseen. (2) Reach for self-care to help us through the process as we know we will better for this experience, and (3) By accepting our circumstances even to the point of being thankful for our adversity, we can fast track through the adversity and challenge.

So, stop resisting, start accepting, reach for self-care and be thankful for the adversity and you will get to the other side much quicker.

 

 

Corinna Bellizzi interviews Matt Schlegel on the Care More Be Better Podcast

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Corinna Bellizzi and Matt Schlegel have a broad ranging conversation covering different approaches to engaging with the climate crisis and how the Enneagram can be used as a tool to help us understand how best we can all contribute.

Show Notes:

04:38 Matt’s journey to becoming a climate activist

06:40 How individual effort and societal change can work together to make an impact

12:58 How to motivate communities and governments to change

15:19 The Enneagram and problem-solving

17:57 Getting people to connect emotionally with the problem and the vision for the future.

20:34 The normalcy bias and the grieving process of lifestyle transformation

27:45 The bigger problem and owning our responsibility for it

30:05 The power of local community organizing in effecting change

35:26 #FridaysForFuture and other initiatives

41:33 The value of neurodiversity and different perspectives in problem-solving

44:55 Matt’s advice

 

Join the Care More. Be Better. Community! (Social Links Below)

Website: https://www.caremorebebetter.com

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Reversing Global Warming: How The Enneagram Tool And #FridaysForFuture Can Join Forces To Address The Climate Crisis With Matt Schlegel Of Evolutionary Teams

 

Maya Steinberg — Enneagram Type 9 brings a Positive Outlook to Climate Leadership

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Maya Steinberg shares how her feelings of hope and optimism motivate her to action and leadership in the climate space. While it was feelings of sadness that first alerted her to the need for action, these feelings are not what keep her feeling empowered day-to-day. Though some climate leaders tap into anger for motivation, Enneagram Type 9s tend to minimize anger and lean into other feelings for motivation.  As Climate Justice Development Manager at Hammond Climate Solutions, Maya manages the clean energy programs and supports the philanthropic efforts for her organization. Hammond Climate Solutions is on a mission to expedite positive change for a just and livable future for all. Maya is dedicated to ensuring that climate solutions are implemented in a just and equitable way. Maya is an excellent example of how Enneagram Type 9s become leaders in the climate space, and she share the feelings that motivate her.

Connect with Maya here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maya-steinberg-50ab951a8/PA

Learn about Hammond Climate Solutions here: https://www.hammondclimatesolutions.com/

#Leadership #Energy  #climatechange #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ

[Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are using their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today I’m speaking with Maya Steinberg, a climate leader who brings a positive outlook to her work on the climate crisis. Maya shared that she is Enneagram Type 9. And listen closely to her emphasize the importance of staying positive and how she’s connected with feelings of sadness and anxiety, but keeps a focus on those positive feelings. And now for the conversation. Today, I’m joined by Maya Steinberg, Climate Justice Development Manager at Hammond Climate Solutions. Hammond Climate Solutions is on a mission to expedite positive change for adjust and livable future for all. Maya manages the clean energy programs and supports the philanthropic efforts for her organization. Maya is dedicated to ensuring that climate solutions are implemented in a just and equitable way. Maya, thank you so much for joining me today.

Maya Steinberg:

Thank you so much for having me.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah, so great to have you, and I’m really looking forward to our conversation. And, what I’m really trying to do is understanding the underlying feelings that impassion people into their leadership and actions in the climate movement. And I wanted to just start off and ask you, how are you feeling now about climate change?

Maya Steinberg:

Well, I would say my feelings are honestly all over the place. Generally, I’m a very optimistic and positive person. I definitely value inner peace and harmony in my environment. But, when it comes to the climate crisis in particular, at times I’m hopeful, and optimistic, and strong. But, at other times, I feel discouraged and uncertain, just because, I mean, we all see the news. We all know rising sea levels and temperatures, rampant wildfires and droughts, among many, many other disasters. So, it’s hard to remain hopeful, but just being the optimistic person I am, I know that, that is the guiding light for me in terms of how I handle my thoughts on climate change as a whole.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Yeah. And certainly, we need to find hope and optimism as we work through this. It’s so important. And I so appreciate you bringing that hopeful, positive, and optimistic energy to this. And one of the things I like to understand, because there’s usually a different starting point for people, and the big three are generally anger, some people start with anger, “Ugh. That just frustrates me.” Another one is just sadness. And, another one is anxiety. And, I know we all cycle through these, but would you characterize one of those as your starting point?

Maya Steinberg:

In terms of, what made me feel impassioned to make a difference?

Matt Schlegel:

Yes.

Maya Steinberg:

That’s a great question. Probably, sadness. When I look at the world around me… I grew up in Los Angeles, a major city, so I didn’t have real exposure to the natural environment. So, it wasn’t until I entered adulthood where I started camping, spending more time in nature. And, although I did go to an outdoor sports camp when I was younger. So, we would go into different creeks, and rivers, and lakes. So, I had that exposure to the natural environment. But just as I’ve gotten older, just becoming more aware and seeing my surroundings change, that has… And also, when you think about the impacts that climate justice has, the fact that marginalized communities are impacted first and worst, the fact that defenseless animals are having their habitats and ecosystems destroyed. I mean, I think that definitely instills the feeling of sadness. So, I think, for me, I try to use that as a motivating factor in terms of wanting to make a difference and make a change for the world.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. So, just your compassion for the other life, that you’ve now experienced this. And you bring up such a good point, because so many people who grow up in an urban environment, they aren’t necessarily connected with nature. And so, it’s hard to appreciate what we’re losing, unless you’ve experienced nature at some point in your life.

Maya Steinberg:

Definitely.

Matt Schlegel:

For somebody who grew up in the South Pacific with beautiful, colorful coral reefs, and then seeing them turned bleached white, it’s just got to be devastating for them. But they have that close, personal connection with what’s going on, and oftentimes a lot of us are so busy leading a more urban life that we don’t see that happening. So, that is really such a good point. So, how now do you find that these feelings are influencing your behaviors and your direction as a leader?

Maya Steinberg:

Sure. So, I would say, again, generally I try my best to be a very positive and optimistic person. So, I like to be fueled by that. I mean, of course, the sadness, the climate anxiety, that is definitely a source of fuel to keep people going. But, I choose to focus on the positive and the win. So, I use the more negative views to push myself to work harder and to make more of an effort in terms of networking and just spreading the word, raising awareness of the climate crisis. And, I think also, just having discussions with people that have both similar and differing viewpoints than me is something that has definitely been beneficial in terms of seeing how different leaders and different people across the movement are influenced by climate change.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah, it’s interesting. Sadness is such a important feeling for raising awareness, and compassion, and caring, and it’s a really good starting point. But, I find that the feelings that really motivate us to action are more anxiety and anger. Those are the two that get you going.

Maya Steinberg:

Mm-hmm.

Matt Schlegel:

And I noticed that you mentioned climate anxiety as a motivating force. And I relate to that because I think that’s one that really energizes me when I’m not feeling sad. Then, my anxiety for, “Oh, we got to do something,” is a important one to get you going and get you doing stuff.

Maya Steinberg:

But I also feel like there is such a fine line between those more negative feelings and also just having a general feeling of hopelessness or despair, because I think if it’s the latter feelings, it’s not going to motivate you to try to make a positive change, to try to make an impact, because people can tend to be focused just on the negative. So I think, a pinch of that, just a healthy amount is great, and I think is motivating. But I think, just focusing on the positive on what we as individuals can do, even starting at the local level and then working our way up to the state level, national level, global level, I think, is something that has definitely resonated with me as well.

Matt Schlegel:

And what is it that you are finding right now in your leadership that really is the beacon or guiding light for that optimism? What is drawing you towards that optimism?

Maya Steinberg:

Well, I think, we’re obviously living in a time where there’s a lot of different opinions, but I would say that there is the general consensus that climate change is real and climate change is happening. And I think that the millennials, Gen Z, the younger generations, this is something that is at the forefront of their agenda. So, when I think about the future, I’m hopeful, and I’m positive that effective climate policies will be put into place, and that we’ll be able to mitigate the climate crisis, and hopefully undo some of the damage that’s done. But just knowing that the rising generations are so passioned and invigorated by making a positive change for the planet is something that definitely gives me a source of optimism.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Just the increasing awareness and passion about doing something and how it’s becoming easier and easier to build these communities that are interested in doing the work, I agree, that’s very, very motivating, and hopeful, and optimistic.

Maya Steinberg:

Mm-hmm.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Thank you. So now, what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders, who are, they themselves having starting to have feelings about the climate crisis?

Maya Steinberg:

I love this question, just because I think that there are so many different answers and so many different right answers. There is no wrong answer just because it really depends on the individual person. But I would say, spreading the word, getting involved, volunteering. I know threefifty.org and the Climate Reality Project have chapters in different cities across the country, and I know their work is virtual as well. I think that’s a great starting point. But I also think that if you are experiencing some of the more negative emotions or climate anxiety, just knowing that you’re not alone and experiencing those feelings, I think, is definitely beneficial. I think having an open dialogue with family, friends, peers, mentors, just people around you that you’re close to, I think that could be a great way to combat those more negative feelings and just being proactive, I think.

Maya Steinberg:

Personally, since rejoining the climate realm after graduating college, I felt a lot of inspiration and connection to those around me, and it’s just, yeah, instilled a lot of hope and positivity. And yeah. So I think, also practicing gratitude and journaling has been something that has personally resonated with me a lot. So I think focusing on what you can do at the individual level, and also advocating for elected officials, and leaders, and CEOs that have the climate crisis as a priority agenda item on their docket, I think that would be a great starting point.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you mentioned so many great things. Starting with, just having conversations with those around you, because that helps you process your feelings, and then finding like-minded people who are sharing similar feelings, and joining communities of like-minded people, and focusing those feelings into action.

Maya Steinberg:

Mm-hmm.

Matt Schlegel:

And I love the way you say, “There’s no wrong answer.” It’s like, everybody needs to be doing everything. So, it’s like, whatever you’re passionate about, there’s something that you can be doing to address the climate crisis in that realm. So, it’s such grace advice.

Maya Steinberg:

Thank you. For better or for worse, the climate crisis is very expansive in terms of what it entails and what it covers from communities of concern, to different ecosystems, to impacts on the environment, to other social justice types of concerns. So I think I truly believe that there is something within the umbrella of climate change that every single person can resonate with. It’s just about finding what truly speaks to you and running with those feelings to try to make a difference.

Matt Schlegel:

Perfect. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Maya, for all the terrific work that you are doing and your leadership in this area. It’s so important. And thank you for sharing your feelings and joining me in the conversation today. I really appreciate it.

Maya Steinberg:

Thanks. It’s been a pleasure to chat with you.

Matt Schlegel:

Thank you. Thanks for listening. Maya shared so many great points. I love how she emphasized the importance of having conversations and building community. Also, as an Enneagram Type 9, who tend to minimize feelings of anger, she uses positive feelings like hope and optimism to maintain the energy and direction for her leadership. We definitely need more Enneagram Type 9s like Maya as climate leaders. If you found this helpful, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to get notifications of future episodes. Thanks again.

 

 

Climate Leader Martin Stanley Gets Energy From Feelings and Trees

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Martin Stanley who goes by his nickname “Stan” shows us how we can address the climate crisis in any occupation or endeavor we undertake.  Stan is CEO at Treewise, a UK-based vegetation risk management service that keeps trees from disrupting critical infrastructure like electrical power lines. Stan is passionate about turning tree cuttings into energy that helps reduce the need for fossil fuels and their unwanted emissions.

More about Stan here:

Martin Stanley, known to his friends and colleagues as Stan

Stan is a passionate and committed entrepreneur, who built and sold his first Tree Surgery company to FTSE250 company in 2009.

More recently Stan developed and patented game changing methodologies for the way we manage trees a ”Assets” in particular around powerline and rail track Rights of Way.

To validate Stans methodologies he secured £2.1m funding from the European & UK Space Agency where his project identified how to efficiently measure trees with geospatial data. Measuring trees is one thing but with global warming it was apparent more and more waste was being produced from tree surgery and forestry operations.

As ever with the entrepreneur spirit Stan looked at doing something more efficient with the waste, something to better the environment, so with his UK based company Treewise has now partnered with a European technology provider who are leading a Blue Revolution, and between them their delivering ground-breaking projects where they turn tree waste into Hydrogen, food grade carbon dioxide or electricity, at the same time capture carbon in the process.

Stan also presents his other projects on the international vegetation conference circuits which include:

  • Establishing ground-breaking principles on effectively processing LiDAR data for vegetation management for field crews and regulatory reporting
  • Working with University of Leicester established new principles for using high spatial resolution, multi spectral satellite imagery for a new wildfire ignition risk index

www.tree-wise.com

#Leadership #Energy  #climatechange #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Martin Stanley, who is using his feelings about the climate crisis to fuel the transformation of the tree maintenance industry into a source of green energy. And now for the conversation.

Matt Schlegel:

Today, I’m joined by Martin Stanley, who goes by his nickname, Stan. Stan is CEO at Treewise, a UK based vegetation risk management service that keeps trees from disrupting critical infrastructure like electrical power lines. Stan has increasingly become concerned about the climate crisis and realized that he could take innovative steps in his own business to develop alternative energy sources that will move us away from extracting and burning fossil fuels. I’m eager to hear about his climate journey. Thank you Stan for joining me today.

Martin Stanley:

Thanks Matt it’s an absolute pleasure. It’s great to be on your podcast so thanks for inviting me. I must say I’ve seen some of your previous podcasts and must give a big shout out I think to Betsy Rosenberg, I think I’m a big fan there. Some great comments there. “Wake up, smell the carbon” was great and “Go forth and greenify” I thought brilliant, when’s the t-shirts coming out?

Matt Schlegel:

Yes, yes. Yeah, she is great with her Betsy-isms, I love them. So thanks again for joining me today and I would like to start off and just ask you how you’re feeling about the climate crisis now?

Martin Stanley:

Well I mean it makes me very angry, the state of the crisis at the minute. I mean we live on a beautiful planet, which over billions of years, nature has made incredibly robust, diverse, and successful. The one thing that keeps it all in check and keeps us alive, the atmosphere, we’re destroying. And yeah it concerns me because it seems as a race that we’re happy to do that.

Martin Stanley:

And we often ask the question, why are these things happening? We like to understand it and obviously it comes down to people’s choices I think. Choices and the decisions that people make, a decision leads one way or another and obviously I think all in all we seem to be making some poor decisions. Whether it comes back down to education, is it the government? Is it society? I don’t know. I have to ask myself with the things I’ve seen in business that in today’s world it’s often about the bottom line. The pounds, the dollars, the euros that sort of call the shots and they seem to override some of the common sense about what we do with the environment. And its as somebody said to me recently, there’s a lot of pressures on businesses and sometimes it’s just about doing the right thing.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. And it is really interesting that you bring up anger and so many people they come into their climate journey from a different point. Some through grief or sadness or some through anxiety. So it’s really interesting that you highlight anger, which is a perfectly valid response and a perfectly valid feeling. And in your business you are out in nature all the time. You are with the trees and you’re working with the trees and you’re managing and preserving them and I can imagine that also impacts you as you see all of your tree friends being impacted.

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely, yeah. And I suppose mentioning the world of trees, it’s where we started off and when we looked at how better to manage trees, in relation to power lines, the best time to prune them, the best times to work on them, it’s an industry that we say that… I don’t think there’s another industry with so many anomalies because we have different tree species, different growth rates, different landowners, voltages, safety distance to work with. And one of the things to help us look at the impact of managing trees is the methodologies we’ve produced where we manage trees as assets, which was great for the operational side of life. Then we started to learn about the environmental benefits we could add to that.

Martin Stanley:

So when we looked at a tree as an asset, we also thought, well actually it’s not just about safety clearances, it’s about the environmental, the green tag to that.

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Martin Stanley:

What’s the benefits of that tree if we remove it, what would be done to the wildlife habitat? What’s it mean in terms of biodiversity? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? And all that builds up into what we call the green balance sheets. So when we’re working on power lines, we have power line corridors and we look at what that means in terms of a green balance sheet and biodiversity.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. So just taking a much more holistic view of the tree and all the benefits that we accrue from that tree being in our environment. I think that’s great. So you mentioned anger specifically, and I’m just wondering now, how are the feelings that you’re having, anger, whichever that you’re having, how are they influencing your behaviors and your direction as a leader?

Martin Stanley:

Well, it’s an interesting one because there’s many roads we could take with this, but what became really apparent through the work we did, it was validating some projects working alongside European Space Agency. So that led us into looking deeper into data for climate, particularly with the Met Office and certainly-

Matt Schlegel:

And the Met office is the UK version that looks at weather, right? It’s the weather, the National Weather Service?

Martin Stanley:

That’s right, yes. And certainly in terms of UK and the climate we have, we’re getting longer growing seasons, so we’re getting up to 336 growing days a year. So when we said to the Met Office, “What’s that mean more in real terms, in layman’s terms?” So they said that the growing seasons actually kick in when the temperature is five degrees or more for five consecutive days and then the growing season ends when the temperatures five degrees or less for five consecutive days. So the example of the UK over the last 10 years, we’ve gained an extra month of growing season compared to the last 40 years. So this is all down to climate warming.

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Martin Stanley:

So what that means for us, we’re getting more tree growth. So more growth means on the maintenance operations we’re getting a lot more waste. So if we take a context of the UK, and as we said the National Critical Infrastructure, just say power, rail and highways, we would estimate 2 million tons of waste are produced each year. So if you like to take the anger out and channel it in the right direction, we started to do some more research and ended up teaming up with a company in the Netherlands that make a very clever technology to actually do something useful with this waste. So it’s a process whereby we can feed waste into, for a better word, a gas fire machine, and we can turn that green waste into either hydrogen, food grade carbon dioxide or electricity. And the beauty is because it’s carbon based waste it captures the carbon in the same process. So we’ve actually nicknamed this within the company, the Magic Machiner.

Matt Schlegel:

Nice, nice. So that’s amazing. So as a part of your business, you have this waste, you’re finding you’re getting more and more from the lengthening growing season and then you found an innovative solution through this company. And do you want to tell us the name of the company that you’re partnering with?

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely. The company’s name is BlueRevo based in the Netherlands, and a quick www.bluerevo.nl and you can check them out. They are leaders in what’s known as the Blue Revolution. It’s an amazing technology that’s been developed and certainly for what was in the tree and forestry industry, it’s going to absolutely revolutionize how we operate.

Matt Schlegel:

Oh wow.

Martin Stanley:

It will take the road miles out of [inaudible 00:10:34] if you like, by the way this can be set up. So we’re getting a very low footprint on the carbon waste. The waste itself is unwanted material, so it’s a win-win. And every day that we use it, we are capturing carbon.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. I mean, that’s brilliant. That’s such a great way to address what you’re seeing, what somebody might see as a growing waste problem, but you’re saying no, here’s an opportunity for us to capture that carbon and then turn it into something useful that will provide energy and allow us to move off of fossil fuels. So that is brilliant.

Martin Stanley:

Yeah and it’s a dream scenario. So again, for the power companies that are producing their own waste, they can install these machines into their depots and as the waste comes back at the end of the day, it can be figured to produce different products. So if the company’s recently invested in the electric vehicles, they can charge the electric vehicles within their own environment from their own waste. And it’s the same as hydrogen for the crews that could adapt hydrogen vehicles, again they can bring their own waste back to create the hydrogen, they fuel the vehicles and fleet them back into the field the next day. So it’s an absolute dream scenario.

Matt Schlegel:

And it sounds like it’s very localized. So you are not transporting these materials long distances. You’re collecting them locally and then you are converting them into these useful products locally and being able to use those products locally, it sounds like. So it’s a very self contained system.

Martin Stanley:

Absolutely, and I think the difference compared to what’s out there today in terms of biofuel plants, set int the UK the size of plants will be few and far between, so the feed stock, if you like, that they use has to be taken to them. So that’s arctic lorries, tractors and trailers on the highways collecting road miles as they go. So these are of a size, if you like, 60 feet by 18 by 30 feet if you like. It’s something that’s a unit size that can be installed in local depots.

Martin Stanley:

So the way we look at reducing the road miles and the thought process behind it is that tree surgery crews leave a depot in the morning, it may mean a changing configuration of vehicles as in the carrying waste back, they bring it back at the end of the day. So that journey was being made, there’s no more road miles. With the waste is in one spot and it can be fed through the machine. And I think part of the clever technology behind this, tree surgery waste in this world, in the biofuel world, is often frowned at. But the technology deals with that. So we open up a new market to actually utilize a very low grade waste.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. This is brilliant and we have a lot of trees in my community. I’m in Palo Alto, California, and the city does put a lot of effort into maintaining a tree canopy, but also there’s a lot of maintenance. We have tree crews coming down our street several times a year collecting a lot of tree waste. So I will definitely share this with my city to give them some ideas about how they could use this. This is really brilliant.

Martin Stanley:

We’d appreciate that. Yeah, well we’re open for business, so anybody that wants to contact us for more information, then yeah, please don’t hesitate.

Matt Schlegel:

Absolutely.

Martin Stanley:

It’s an absolutely great opportunity.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes.

Martin Stanley:

Great story and it’s great for the environment.

Matt Schlegel:

So I would like to, as you have come to your realization about the urgency of acting on climate through your feelings, what advice would you give to other leaders and people, aspiring leaders, who they themselves now starting to have feelings about the climate crisis?

Martin Stanley:

Well, I say the first thing, it will always be, I think a long journey. So I’ve been knocking on the doors and trying to break down the barriers for some years now, but I think you’ve got to, if you’re passionate about it, you have to really understand what it exactly is that you’re trying to achieve or explain. I think you need to be very knowledgeable on your own specific subject. Be well read in those matters and never give up. You knock on as many doors as you can and just keep trying. Unless people don’t do that we won’t make the changes.

Matt Schlegel:

Persistence.

Martin Stanley:

Persistence, exactly.

Matt Schlegel:

Persistence is key. And that’s true for any leader. I think any leader appreciates that persistence is key. And I so appreciate how you have taken what you know in your area of expertise and then you’re passionate about climate and then found a way to apply your expertise to helping us solve the climate crisis and to move away from burning fossil fuels. So thank you so much for all you’ve done, all the insights that you’ve brought, all the energy and persistence that you’ve brought. So thank you so much and I wish you all the best and I will be in touch about maybe bringing this to our city. And if there’s any last thoughts you’d like to leave us with, please.

Martin Stanley:

Yeah, no, look just like I said earlier, any further information, we’re here. We’re here to help. Simple as that. Thank you for your time. Really much appreciated.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for listening. Stan’s leadership is such a fantastic example of how you can become a climate leader in whatever occupation you’re in. Stan focused his concerns about the climate crisis towards making his own industry, tree maintenance and management, into a source of green energy, thereby minimizing the use of fossil fuels and their dangerous emissions. If you found this helpful, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to get notifications of future episodes. Thanks again.

 

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