Leadership

Stephan Crawford is founder and executive producer at The ClimateMusic Project where he uses music to communicate the urgency of the climate crisis. Stephan has a fascinating background in international affairs and had a 20-year career with the US Dept. of Commerce supporting US clean energy companies around world.  Already aware of the climate crisis, his attention has now turned to his other passion, music. As executive producer at The ClimateMusic Project, he collaborates with professionals in the sciences, arts and technology, and uses music to communicate the severity of the climate crisis and the need for urgent action.  Music is such a powerful form of communication as it allows you to connect directly with people’s feelings.

Find Stephan Crawford here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephan-crawford-948598/

The Climate Music Project: https://climatemusic.org/

#Leadership #Commitment #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ #climatechange #music

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:                   How are you feeling about climate change and how are those feelings influencing your behaviors? Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Stephan Crawford, founder and executive producer at the ClimateMusic Project which uses music to communicate the urgency of the climate crisis. And now for the conversation…

My guest is Stephan Crawford. Stephan has a fascinating background in International Affairs and had a 20 year career with the US Department of Commerce supporting US Clean Energy companies around the world. Already aware of the climate crisis, his attention has now turned towards his other passion, music. He is the founder and executive producer at the ClimateMusic Project which in collaboration with professionals in the Sciences, Arts and Technology uses music to communicate the severity of the climate crisis and the need for urgent action. Music is such a powerful form of communication as it allows you to connect directly with people’s feelings. I’m so excited for the conversation. Thank you, Stephan, for joining me today.

Stephan Crawford:          Thank you for the invitation. I’m pleased to be here.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yeah. So why don’t we just start off and I’d just like to know how you are feeling about climate change now?

Stephan Crawford:          So many emotions and yet also somewhat numb. I did my very first or I participated in my very first climate event in 1988 so that’s a long time. And I mean, I think the emotions started then and I’ve gotten to the point though where the emotions are there but I can’t let them overwhelm… At least in terms feeling of sorrow or a feeling of loss or despair, I have to put those in the background in order to even just every day to be able to function. So in a way it’s controlling emotions but I think the other thing I should mention is that my generation, I think you probably, will also remember this. We grew up also at a time when there was another issue which was the threat of instantaneous nuclear annihilation growing up. That was also an emotional hit so I think our generation has been, I think, conditioned to having to deal with really difficult emotions on a constant basis.

Matt Schlegel:                   Right. Well, so it’s really interesting how you brought up sorrow and grief. Do you find that those are the main underlying motivations? I know all of us probably, cycle through anger, anxiety, grief but it sounds like your starting point is more in that sense of loss.

Stephan Crawford:          Yeah. I mean, I think you start with what you love, right? I mean, what the motive force for me is the fact that I think that I love life. I love this planet we’re living on, I love the individuals in my life. And the thought of losing any of that of course, does immediately bring up a sense of despair, loss and sorrow. But again, as I said, that those can be very debilitating if you let them be debilitating and so for me over all these years now, I’ve just become very good at compartmentalize those emotions and keeping them in a box somewhere in my subconscious. And the other emotions that are the more driving emotions like anger and I think just a sense of frustration are the ones that actually, keep me going on a day to day basis.

Matt Schlegel:                   Right. Oh, that’s fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. And that leads me into my next question then, how are your feelings influencing your behaviors and direction as a leader today?

Stephan Crawford:          Well, I think they’re what keep me going, they’re the motive force. It’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. I think that we live at a time when we could be preserving this Eden that we share with the rest of life because we have the knowledge to do so we have all the tools we need to do so and yet we are not choosing to do so which for me is just absolutely, almost unbelievable. And I think the motive emotions for me right now is just a very strong desire to combat human stupidity and small mindedness in all of its forms to really get us onto a plane where we can really appreciate what we have been given and work to preserve it and to cherish it which we’re certainly, not doing in our current system, that’s for sure.

Matt Schlegel:                   And I’m getting the sense it’s that people haven’t come to that same sense of feeling the problem like you have. And so how are you finding that your music is able to connect the climate problem with people’s feelings?

Stephan Crawford:          Yeah. I come from a fairly privileged background, I have to admit that. I mean, that is something with the case. And so I’ve had the opportunity to have taken aa graduate degree in Environmental Sciences for example, and have had the opportunity to meet people and to talk about the issue and to have it very present in my life because I’ve had the space in my life for it. I haven’t had to work two or three jobs. That’s a really important factor and I think our society has gotten to a point where most people are struggling. At least most people I know are struggling outside of my immediate circle. And so it’s not hard to understand why people are not able to internalize the problem and really fully become aware of where we are, it’s because there’s so many distractions right now.

And then also it’s scary. It’s scary at the same time, it’s abstract and so I think that our society’s in a point where it’s almost like a perfect storm against awareness and against action because there’s so many things that can actually get people off rail when it comes down to trying to learn about it and even… And then once you know about it trying to act. So I think music is something though that is very primitive in us, it’s very visceral in us, it’s very intuitive in us. And I think it’s something that, because so many people connect with it, not everybody but most people do connect with music that it is an important vehicle, a very powerful vehicle to begin the process of driving that awareness and new insight that can lead to opening hearts and through open hearts, open minds.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yeah. That is so important and I think you described the situation that we’re in so well. Where we’re also busy in our day to day working in the system that it’s hard to pop out and just think about working on the system. And we’re not going to get people to do that unless we connect with their hearts. And like you said, music is just one of the most powerful forms of communication for doing that. So thank you so much for this absolutely, important work that you’re doing.

Stephan Crawford:          It’s been a gift, actually.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yeah. And I expect that as you succeed in what you are doing, more people are going to be having feelings about the climate and then as they come into those feelings and they’re motivated in their various ways what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders that are having these feelings? What advice would you give them now?

Stephan Crawford:          Well, one of the things I want to just say parenthetically perhaps, is that I think what’s really important is to have… Even for those people who think they know a lot about the issue and I include myself in that, to have some humility and to really understand that we all need to keep learning from each other, learning from people we don’t think we can learn anything from. I think that’s really important and I’m just looking at my own trajectory over the last years and my understanding of the issue has evolved dramatically to the point where now I used to see it as more of a technological problem that technology could fix a long time ago. And I’ve moved to an understanding that really it’s a symptom, it’s the climate emergency is not a monolithic problem. It’s a symptom of how the many dysfunctional ways that we have organized our society and our economy.

And as a result, there are many concomitant symptoms that also reflect this, for example, structural racism and poverty. These are all related symptoms of what we need to fix and so that’s really important to understand that we all need to continue to grow. And I’m working on that all the time in terms of what I would suggest to somebody who maybe is just getting started. The most important thing I think is learning more about the issues, the first step. And there are many great resources out there if you’re really brand new to the issue, check out for example, the EPA website or the NASA website that has a lot of great information there. If you know a little bit more and you’re ready to get started, check out and see how you might reduce your own footprint as a first step.

There’s the global footprint network has a carbon calculator where you can actually, it’s interactive. You can play around with numbers, it’s really interesting to see how you can make or reduce the carbon intensity of your own life. And then probably, most important right now for everybody is especially, with the midterm elections coming up is voting for candidates who support rapid climate action. That is incredibly important because what happens in November will really set the stage for how well the United States is going to be able to deal with this issue and we have to deal with it now. And then beyond that, I have to say that just start somewhere and keep walking. What I think what is really amazing is and what gives me hope is the power of individuals to make a difference.

And it all starts with a first step and then another step and if you repeat it, I think you’ll be surprised how far you can go. The ClimateMusic project just began as an idea in my studio here and playing with the idea, we took one step then another step and just a few years later, we’re here. So I think that there’s a lot that can be done just by talking to people. So that’s the other thing is if you feel like your neighbors don’t know much about the issue, invite them over, maybe start a learning group together with your neighbors. And once you’ve all learned together then figure out ways to work together in community to, for example, influence policy or to make changes in your community.

So there are many things that we can do. And the other thing I should mention is that all these things have co benefits, they can strengthen your community. They can make people who otherwise might feel isolated, let feel less isolated. So there are many possibilities of building virtual circles here which I think ultimately, will make everybody’s lives better. And that’s the other important point here is that we have to all understand that by solving this problem and really solving it again, solving it as solving the actual problems within our society not just climate change as a symptom, I think we really can create a world that’s within our grasp that really will make life better for virtually everybody. And that is something that everybody should really understand and really take to the heart and that’s something that I think should really motivate people as well.

Matt Schlegel:                   Yeah. Beautifully said. Boy, and I was just ticking off all the great ideas in there and just to highlight what you did is you took your knowledge and passion around climate change and then intersected that with your passion around music and you just so perfectly, highlight how no matter where you are, you can take whatever you’re passionate about and apply it to helping us solve the climate crisis.

Stephan Crawford:          Absolutely.

Matt Schlegel:                   Building communities. So I just think you are a really extraordinary example of the power of that. And so thank you again, for all of the great work that you’re doing. And I would love to have you come back and give us an update as you move forward with the ClimateMusic project. And thanks again for joining me in the conversation today, Stephan.

Stephan Crawford:          Thank you, Matt. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Matt Schlegel:                   Thanks for watching. Stephan has long had feelings about the climate crisis and he shared that his starting feelings tend to be sorrow, loss and despair. And since those feelings can be quite debilitating, he’s learned to compartmentalize those and tap into other feelings that give him more motivation on a day to day basis. That is such great advice from Stephan. Also, I love all the suggestions that he has for leaders and aspiring leaders who are having feelings about climate. He serves as such a great example himself by emphasizing the importance of simply communicating how you’re feeling about climate with others in your circles whether that be in conversations or using music as Stephan does. If you found this conversation helpful, please click on the thumbs up button, subscribe to the channel and get notifications of future episodes. If you have any questions, please leave them in the comments section and I’ll respond as soon as I can. Thanks again.

Sri Sukhi is a data scientist and serial entrepreneur who taps into his strong feelings about climate change for his leadership and motivation in creating solutions to reduce the use of fossil fuels. He founded and served as CEO of Solecular, a software company that maximizes efficiency and output of renewable energy plants.  His current company, EmitZero, provides a software platform that helps companies decarbonize their supply chains.  Sri describes feeling disturbed, especially with slow progress on solving the climate crisis, and despite that feels the urgent need to continue moving forward and making progress.  I appreciate how Sri serves to show both companies and individuals paths to decarbonize and reduce fossil fuel emissions.

Find Sri Sukhi here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/srisukhi/

EmitZero: https://www.emitzero.io/

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

How are you feeling about climate change and how are those feelings influencing your behaviors? Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Sri Sukhi, a data scientist and entrepreneur who has founded and led several software companies focused on solutions that are leading us to a decarbonized society. And now for the conversation.

My guest today is Sri Sukhi. Sri is a data scientist and serial entrepreneur who turned his attention to grid level wind and solar energy solutions when he founded and served as CEO of Solecular, a software company that maximizes efficiency and output of renewable energy plans. His current company, EmitZero, provides a software platform that helps companies decarbonize their supply chains. Sri, it is a delight to have you here with me today. Thank you so much for joining me.

Sri Sukhi:

Hey, Matt. Yeah, thank you for the opportunity.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah, I love it. Appreciate it. Let me just start off. The climate report just came out this week. How are you feeling about climate change right now?

Sri Sukhi:

Yeah. I think for those of us who are sort of in tune with the world of the climate reports and whatnot, we kind of see a disconnect between what is being talked about in the news, what’s being talked about in social media, and what climate scientists are telling us about. Just this like going back and forth between these two worlds, it’s just like really hard, right?

Sri Sukhi:

I was rock climbing yesterday at the gym and met this guy who… He’s a scientist, not a climate scientist, but a scientist who worked for one of the chemical companies in the Bay Area. He kind of asked me what I do, and it was like, “Yeah, I’m helping companies reduce emissions.” Like, “Wow, so you’re like an environmentalist?” I’m like, “Well, no, I’m not an environmentalist.” There’s layers. It’s kind of like I feel like I’m in this position kind of caught between two worlds. That’s kind of how I feel.

Matt Schlegel:

It’s like almost cognitive dissonance, where we know what’s going on with climate and yet the world just kind of keeps going along. Is there any particular feeling that strikes you? Is it like anger, or do you feel anxious or sadness? I mean, is there anything in particular, or is it just like a malaise for you?

Sri Sukhi:

It’s disturbing, right? That is how I feel. There are elements of anger, but it’s not so direct.

Matt Schlegel:

Okay.

Sri Sukhi:

It’s also like this feeling of like, “Well, okay. So if we have to hit peak emissions by 2025 and it’s 2022?”

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah.

Sri Sukhi:

There’s new natural gas plants being built, and there’s more oil being pumped, like, “Wait, this isn’t trending in the trajectory,” right? Again, even in terms of like what we are doing as a civilization is disturbing compared to what we should be doing in order to sustain this planet.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Yeah, disturbing. How would you characterize it? Would it be something like frustration? That disturbing feeling, it’s kind of coming out as a frustration maybe?

Sri Sukhi:

Yeah, that’s probably the closest. Rather than anger is like more of an active thing and this is a little more frustration because I’m trying to do my best, but it’s not nearly enough, right?

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah, yeah. We all need to be doing everything we can to really move the needle. It can feel frustrating and a little bit isolating when you don’t see everybody stepping up and doing it. I totally get that. How are you then channeling those feelings that you’re having into your work as a leader and how are they informing your leadership?

Sri Sukhi:

Right. In the organization, there’s constant steering and there’s a lot of need for alignment. What is that north star? And if that north star is, in our case, if it’s tons of carbon emitted, tons of CO2E carbon dioxide equivalent emitted, then how do we design our business model? How do we helped our economics line with that metric? That is how I channel it. Because you could be like, well, we just kind of inform people of what their emissions are and let them figure out what to do with it.

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Sri Sukhi:

That’s like if we were to take that stance, and there are companies that are doing that, we could still be like a large successful company. But I would still feel that we missed the mark because we didn’t serve our other goal of actually reducing emissions, right?

Matt Schlegel:

Right.

Sri Sukhi:

That is how I believe I’m channeling it, you know?

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Your solution is not only reporting, you’re also providing guidance for how to further reduce the carbon footprint of the supply chain.

Sri Sukhi:

Correct. Guidance, as well as pathways and actual projects that can be implemented and connecting to vendors and then financing and all that.

Matt Schlegel:

That is such an important element because a lot of people do start to like realize they need to do something, but they don’t know what to do. Actually giving them the tools to take action. That’s brilliant. That is really brilliant. Well, now, I think that as time goes on here, we’re going to increasingly have people having feelings about the climate. I think a lot of people they’ll come to this with different feelings. It might be anger. It might be sadness. It could be anything.

Matt Schlegel:

But just from your point of view, as it seems to kind of manifest as this frustration, what advice would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders who are starting to feel frustrated that not enough is happening?

Sri Sukhi:

Well, it’s sort of how do you spread the word, but also how well are you practicing what you’re preaching, right? I don’t want to name any names, but there are sustainability leaders who are still driving in gas coasters, kind of burning on national gas in their furnaces. It’s not things they think about when it comes to climate action. Practice before you preach, right? That’s something that I do share with my fellow leaders.

Sri Sukhi:

I took the effort of decarbonizing my house here and an earlier house that I used to own, but there are still… I know of like some cases where there are unavoidable emissions. When we order food, obviously they’re not driving in EVs, right? There’s the Scope 3 emissions of our personal household. The advice would be like, Hey, when you as a climate leader, when you are also practicing what you’re preaching, it’s a lot more powerful, right?

Sri Sukhi:

You can share from personal experience, right? Like, hey, I made the transition to reduce emissions in my life and here’s how I did it and here were the stumbling blocks, right?

Matt Schlegel:

Yes. It’s a very satisfying feeling, a very rewarding feeling. It sounds like it gives you the opportunity to have conversations about climate, but also just like what you’re doing in your business, suggesting actions for people to take. Don’t say just like have these feelings, but here e some things you could do and you’ve done it and you can share that.

Sri Sukhi:

That’s right. That’s right, yeah. Correct. Sustainability isn’t this other thing. It kind of runs through us, right?

Matt Schlegel:

Right, right. Well, this is great. This is such great advice. I thank you so much for are coming and sharing this, and I really appreciate all the work that you are doing to decarbonize supply chains and get us to a low no carbon world. I wish you the best success, and I hope that you can come back in the future and share more about what you’re doing and the successes that you’ve had, Sri.

Sri Sukhi:

Thank you. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that. It’s great to have this forum and this dialogue, right?

Matt Schlegel:

Yes. Yes. Well, yes, thank you. We all need to share our stories and thanks again for sharing yours.

Sri Sukhi:

Yeah, thanks again. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for watching. Disturbing is the word that Sri uses to describe his feelings right now about climate. He also identifies with the feeling of frustration. As a leader, he speaks to highlighting the north star of his organization, which is maximizing the amount of carbon abatement. I love how his company solutions not only report carbon, but provide direction to his customers on how they can continue to reduce carbon in the supply chain.

He also demonstrates how he walks the walk and takes action in his personal life to decarbonize his lifestyle. He uses that to demonstrate the possibilities for a decarbonized lifestyle with the people in his life. If you found this conversation helpful, please click on the thumbs up button and subscribe to the channel for notifications of future episodes. If you have any questions, please leave them in the comments section and I’ll respond to them as soon as I can. Thanks again.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer is an impressive leader. His past leadership roles include Associate Center Director for Research and Technology at NASA where he directed all research and technology development at NASA’s Ames Research Center. Before that he was a Director of Life and Biomedical Sciences for the Office of Naval Research.

More recently Dr. Zornetzer’ s attention has turned to the challenge of global climate change. He is involved in several efforts including Secure the Future 2100, the Arctic Ice Project and even contributes at the municipal level to decarbonize his city Sunnyvale CA.

Dr. Zornetzer is an Enneagram Type 3 who is increasingly tapping into his feelings to guide the direction of his leadership and efforts.  Type 3s typically suppress their feelings, a trait that would have served him well in technology and scientific research roles.  However, in times of climate crisis, human emotions increasingly come into play during problem solving.  Dr. Zornetzer shares his leadership journey and how emotions now play a more important role.

Find Dr. Zornetzer here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-steven-zornetzer-3981548a/

Secure the Future 2100: https://securethefuture2100.org/

Arctic Ice Project:  https://www.arcticiceproject.org/

#Leadership #Commitment #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ #climatechange

[Video Transcript]

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for joining me in conversations with leaders who are engaging with their feelings as a leadership tool for both inspiration and motivation. Today, I’m speaking with Dr. Steven Zornetzer, an extraordinary science and technology leader with a distinguished career with NASA and Office of Naval Research. Dr. Zornetzer now focuses his remarkable talents on efforts to slow the impact of climate change. And now for the conversation.

Matt Schlegel:

My guest today is Dr. Steven Zornetzer. Dr. Zornetzer is an impressive leader. His past leadership roles include associate center director for research and technology at NASA, where he directed all research and technology development at Ames research center. Before that he was director of life and biomedical sciences for the Office of Naval Research. More recently, Dr. Zornetzer’s attention has turned to the challenge of global climate change. He’s involved in a number of efforts, including Secure The Future 2100, the Arctic Ice Project, and even contributes at the municipal level to decarbonize his city of Sunnyvale, California. I’m so eager to hear about his leadership journey into addressing the climate crisis. Thank you for joining me today.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Thank you, Matt. Delightful to be here.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. And so why don’t we start off by just checking in and seeing how you’re feeling now about climate change.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

I’m feeling energized, motivated, and frightened.

Matt Schlegel:

Yes. It’s remarkable how so many of us, as we think about this, we have a number of different feelings, and how we move through those different feelings, even during the course of the day. Which feelings are driving most of the energy for you, would you say?

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

I think about my grandchildren. I think about the kind of lives they’re embarking on, and how the lives that we’ve known in our youth and throughout our lives, how different their lives are going to be. And certainly, not in a better way, but in a very degraded way. They’re going to experience, if not directly and personally through the news and through day to day life and everything that they observe, they’re going to experience hunger around them. They’re going to experience more disease. They’re going to experience more poverty. They’re going to experience hellacious weather events, droughts, and fires, and freakish storms, and who knows what else. The IPCC, this international organization that the United Nations has chartered over the past decade or more to study climate change and make predictions, they came out just most recently with something they call the atlas of human suffering. And they project, over the next many decades for the rest of this century, they project the kind of degraded life that humans will experience on our planet because of humans.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

So this is what motivates me, is the kind of life my grandchildren are going to lead in. And what I say to myself is, what can I do? What minor teeny little legacy can I leave that will try to make their lives just a little bit better?

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Well, that’s amazing. And it’s remarkable how just the contrast that we are going to see in our lives as, as you put it, the world starts to degrade, the environment starts to degrade, the climate starts to degrade, and how that’s going to impact everybody. And we’ve already started experiencing it, and we’re going to just see that continue. So yeah, it’s going to be very devastating. So how are these feelings that you’re having and your thoughts about the future of your children and grandchildren, how are they influencing your direction and behaviors as a leader today?

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Yeah. So when I retired from NASA about four years ago, I wasn’t planning to spend my retirement largely dedicated to these nonprofits that I’m working with. But it occurred to me, as I began to learn more and happenstance, things happen, you meet people, you start talking to people, you learn more things. And all of a sudden, I realized that there’s nothing more interesting and or important that I could be doing while I’m still [inaudible 00:06:03] and I still have enough energy to perhaps make a difference. There’s nothing more important that I could be doing that would be fulfilling for me than devoting myself to trying to educate people and do what I can to try to slow down the rate of climate change, buying more time for humanity to get off a carbon economy.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. So well said. It’s hard to imagine of a bigger problem, a bigger challenge to work on than the climate challenge. And you’re a lifelong problem solver. So what better problem to sink your teeth into now than one that requires you to join and demonstrate your leadership? I think ultimately all of us have to become climate leaders. So I really appreciate you stepping into that and realizing that. That’s amazing. So thank you for doing that. And so what advice then would you give to leaders and aspiring leaders who are starting to have feelings about climate change and the future of their family and their children?

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Well, that’s a very good question. For people who believe that they do have leadership potential or true leadership ability, just get engaged, get involved. There’s no dearth of opportunities out there to participate in, even if it’s nothing more talking to your neighbors in terms of, well, are you recycling? Are you recycling properly? Are you conserving water? Are you driving an electric car? What’s your next car going to be? Have you considered an electric car? There’s just little things you can do. Then there’s bigger things you can do. You can get involved in your community.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

I got involved at the Sunnyvale Sustainability Commission even before I retired from NASA. And I found it eyeopening. How much can be done at the local level to mitigate some of the causes that are contributing to climate change, whether it be better electrification, incentives for changing out your furnace for a heat pump? Little things that people can do that make a difference when they’re aggregated, and certainly at the community level, even a small town like Sunnyvale.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Get involved. Use some of your passion and some of your energy and focus it on what is the existential question of our time and existential problem of our time. There is no bigger problem right now, frankly. And if you care about your children and your grandchildren and the kind of lives they’re going to lead, now’s the time to act because we have a very small window here where we can make a difference because just a few tens of a degree Celsius increase in temperature on the planet may very well result in irreversible changes that, in our lifetime, certainly never be able to reverse.

Matt Schlegel:

Right. Right. Time is of the essence. Just a couple of comments. So I really appreciate how you are describing that there’s endless opportunities for people who are inclined to demonstrate their leadership skills, and hone and practice their leadership skills. And you can plug in at any level your neighbors, your neighborhood, your city. You are remarkable in your experiences, that you’ve gone all the way from your neighborhood all the way up to the global level. You’re highlighting that we can start anywhere. We can start right where we are today to demonstrate leadership. And that’s so important. And thank you for highlighting that.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

So you were asking, what advice would I give to other aspiring leaders? And I’ll recount a personal experience that actually put me on the pathway that I’m still on with respect to climate change, and global warming, and doing something that can make a difference. So this was back many years ago, 2008, when I was at NASA. And NASA Ames had won a competition within the larger NASA for the next new building within the agency. And that building was going to be built at NASA Ames. And I went to a briefing about the design of that new building and what they were planning to do to build this new building at Ames.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

So I was sitting in the audience and I was listening to the plans, and I was so completely underwhelmed by the lack of imagination, the lack of boldness with respect to this new building. I was sitting here in the 21st century, in the heart of Silicon Valley, this is NASA, and they’re building this ugly, rectangular building that could have been built in 1960, that had conventional heating and air conditioning, nothing imaginative or bold, or even responsive to the growing notion about climate change and what we can do, what we should do.

Matt Schlegel:

And what year was this again?

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

2008.

Matt Schlegel:

Eight. Okay.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

So I was getting more and more frustrated as I was sitting in the audience. At one point, and this was so unlike me, I simply stood up and I said, “Excuse me,” and I raised my hand. Everybody knows who I am. I have a prominent leadership position in Ames, but I had nothing to do with roads, and commodes, and buildings, and that stuff. I was dealing with research and technology. But I said to them, “This is absolutely the wrong building to build, and we’re not going to build this building.” Now, I had no authorities to say that, but I said, “We’re not going to build this building. We’re going to build the greenest building in the federal government. That’s what we should do.”

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

And I just said that, and everybody looked at me and like, are you crazy? How are you going to do that? And some people clapped. So I went back to the director and I told them this same experience. And he said, “You’re exactly right. Let’s build the greenest building we can possibly build.” And NASA headquarters, which gave us a budget and gave us a schedule to do this building said, “You guys can’t do that. No. We’re going to build the building we’ve already started to plan.” And we said, “No. We’re going to build the greenest building in the federal government.” Well, we did. I led that project, and that’s what got me started.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Now, that was a very audacious thing to do. It was completely out of character for me to do that, but I was so frustrated by little think, and we really needed to do big think. And so that’s what we did. And for years, it was the greenest building in the federal government. It was lead platinum certified. It’s still a showcase building. We called it sustainability base. We incorporated aerospace technologies into this building. It was one of the very first smart buildings that used AI and other technologies to manage itself. It was carbon neutral, actually generated energy, not only for itself, but for the rest of the campus. It was a phenomenal building. And it just started with a sense of frustration. And so that’s what I say to aspiring leaders, be audacious, get out there, and do something.

Matt Schlegel:

Yeah. Yeah. And the other, other thing that comes to mind about this experience is if you don’t bring it up, nobody else is going to bring it up. And so if you are feeling that you should be thinking about climate change, and we could be doing more, and nobody’s talking about it, believe me, people are thinking about it, but people just need to have somebody stand up and say it. Everybody’s thinking it. So just stand up and say it, just like you did. Just show that leadership, and people will follow you because people want to follow. Thank you so much for sharing that story. It’s so great.

Matt Schlegel:

Well, I know we could continue this conversation for a long time, and I really appreciate everything you are doing. And I do hope that as we move forward and you continue to make progress in your many efforts, that you can come back and share some of your insights, and offer more advice to leaders who are moving into the climate world.

Dr. Steven Zornetzer:

Thank you, Matt.

Matt Schlegel:

All right. Thank you.

Matt Schlegel:

Thanks for watching. I love how Dr. Zornetzer now focuses his energy on efforts to solve the climate crisis. He highlights how we can demonstrate leadership wherever we are with our friends, family, in our neighborhood, at work. He showed how people want to start taking action, but hesitate until someone starts the conversation. So just start the conversation. And if you found this conversation helpful, please click on the thumbs up button, and subscribe to the channel to get notifications of future episodes. If you have any questions, please leave them in the comments section, and I’ll respond as soon as I can. Thanks again.